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Same sex marriage: Yay or Nay?

Elmo~WAWU~Bn-2~ 2012/04/15 21:10:42
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  • Israel gracious43 2012/05/12 18:51:08
  • gracious43 Israel 2012/05/12 18:56:36
    gracious43
    As we speak, Jesus is preparing the place that we will live. It could not be a place that He will prepare after He destroys the earth, because He is preparing the place right now.

    14 “ Do not let your heart be troubled; [a]believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3 If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.
  • Israel gracious43 2012/05/12 19:14:49
  • gracious43 Israel 2012/05/12 19:27:40
    gracious43
    +1
    There is nothing more precious to read than scripture, dear friend.
  • Israel gracious43 2012/05/12 23:05:04
  • marianne gracious43 2012/05/16 20:41:18
    marianne
    since we do not live in theocracy, any of your religious laws are not real laws for the people of other religions, you can follow them freely, but you can not force them upon others. relligious rediculous
  • gracious43 marianne 2012/05/17 06:10:29
    gracious43
    +1
    Oh sure, we force all kinds of religious laws on other people in this country. Does this sound familiar?

    Deuteronomy 5:19
    ‘ You shall not steal."
  • marianne gracious43 2012/06/05 21:55:09 (edited)
    marianne
    at least we have some good news....http://www.law.com/js...
    SAN FRANCISCO — The next stop for the Proposition 8 case is the Supreme Court.

    The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit on Tuesday denied Prop 8 backers' request for a rehearing before a larger en banc panel of the court, meaning their only hope of preserving California's ban on gay marriage is high court intervention — which they've vowed to seek. funny gay marriage
  • marianne gracious43 2012/06/05 22:11:37 (edited)
    marianne
    your comparison is like apples and oranges.....
    stealing is hurting an other person....
    loving is .... tell me again what is wrong with love? love
  • gracious43 marianne 2012/06/06 06:43:29
    gracious43
    +1
    If you love someone you don't want them to lose their eternal salvation because of sin.

    CK Louis, who you quoted. isn't very loving,

    This is loving:

    James 5:19-20
    19 My dear brothers and sisters, if someone among you wanders away from the truth and is brought back, 20 you can be sure that whoever brings the sinner back will save that person from death and bring about the forgiveness of many sins.

    Galatians 6:1
    Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted.

    1 Corinthians 13:6
    6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
  • marianne gracious43 2012/06/06 07:45:35
    marianne
    i really appreciate and agree with your spirit, except the god who talks to my soul is loving, understanding and does not condemn alternative lifestyle, or at least he/she does not want me to participate in condemnation ... ......;-] do no harm
  • gracious43 marianne 2012/06/06 15:37:17
    gracious43
    Well then you worship a different god than me. I worship the God found in the NT. You don't.

    But that most certainly does not mean that just because your god doesn't condemn homosexuality and immorality that my God doesnt condem homosexuality and immorality. I don't have to worship your god. I have my own God I have put my trust in. And as an American citizen, I have a right to protest the systematic conversion of my country into a homosexist patriarchy.
  • marianne gracious43 2012/06/07 07:29:55 (edited)
    marianne
    do you realize that what your god is telling you is hateful and bigoted?

    my motto is [yeas this is what i came up with all by myself;]

    there is not enough room in one person for both hatred and wisdom
  • gracious43 marianne 2012/06/07 15:16:18
    gracious43
    Okay. Well you have created a god in your own image, and he must be pretty easy to worship, since you are, afterall, only worshipping yourself. And what you say goes, right?

    But I intend to worship the God who can save me.
  • marianne gracious43 2012/06/08 14:58:36
    marianne
    in your own words;
    ''Context Marrianne. What Jesus said was to not be a hypocrite and judge other people for the same thing you are doing yourself. Let's have a look at that passage in context:


    Matthew 7:1-5
    1 “Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2 For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and [a]by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how [b]can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.
  • gracious43 marianne 2012/06/08 15:41:26
    gracious43
    Based on this passage, I am not a hypocrite, because I am not practicing homosexuality. I have no log to remove from my eye. My eye is free and clear of debris, and therefore, I am in a healthy position to point out the sin of homosexuality.

    Now let's have another look at this passage:

    Matthew 7:1-5
    1 “Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2 For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.
  • marianne gracious43 2012/06/08 21:31:47
    marianne
    my point is; how do you judge anyone else's religion, it is faith based, and your faith should not supersede mine or any others.
    you take your orders from a thousand + year old compilation of scripts, which have been translated over and over by human beings. how sure are you that god is a bigot?
    unless i was an expert in those ancient languages, i would not swear on validity of the scriptures.
    point in case, melissa scott, who interprets bible pointed out that one part where it said 'man can not lay with a man' actually meant that a man can not conceive with another man...... .;-]
  • gracious43 marianne 2012/06/09 02:09:47
    gracious43
    Melissa Scott is being dishonest if she said that. It only takes two minutes of the Hebrew word study, to dismiss her assertion. And by the way, the men who produce lexicons are experts in their fields of study.

    Here is the quote

    Leviticus 20:13
    13 If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.

    This is the Hebrew word translated "lie"
    שָׁכַב
    Transliteration
    shakab
    Pronunciation
    shä·kav' (Key)
    Part of Speech
    verb
    Root Word (Etymology)
    A primitive root
    TWOT Reference
    2381
    Outline of Biblical Usage 1) to lie down
    a) (Qal)
    1) to lie, lie down, lie on

    2) to lodge

    3) to lie (of sexual relations)

    4) to lie down (in death)

    5) to rest, relax (fig)

    b) (Niphal) to be lain with (sexually)

    c) (Pual) to be lain with (sexually)

    d) (Hiphil) to make to lie down

    e) (Hophal) to be laid

    Although it is used frequently to denote sexual relations, It has nothing whatsoever to do with conception or reproduction. As an example, the exact same Hebrew word is used in these passages.


    Genesis 28:11
    11 He came to a certain place and spent the night there, because the sun had set; and he took one of the stones of the place and put it under his head, and lay down in that place

    Exodus 22:27
    27...

    Melissa Scott is being dishonest if she said that. It only takes two minutes of the Hebrew word study, to dismiss her assertion. And by the way, the men who produce lexicons are experts in their fields of study.

    Here is the quote

    Leviticus 20:13
    13 If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.

    This is the Hebrew word translated "lie"
    שָׁכַב
    Transliteration
    shakab
    Pronunciation
    shä·kav' (Key)
    Part of Speech
    verb
    Root Word (Etymology)
    A primitive root
    TWOT Reference
    2381
    Outline of Biblical Usage 1) to lie down
    a) (Qal)
    1) to lie, lie down, lie on

    2) to lodge

    3) to lie (of sexual relations)

    4) to lie down (in death)

    5) to rest, relax (fig)

    b) (Niphal) to be lain with (sexually)

    c) (Pual) to be lain with (sexually)

    d) (Hiphil) to make to lie down

    e) (Hophal) to be laid

    Although it is used frequently to denote sexual relations, It has nothing whatsoever to do with conception or reproduction. As an example, the exact same Hebrew word is used in these passages.


    Genesis 28:11
    11 He came to a certain place and spent the night there, because the sun had set; and he took one of the stones of the place and put it under his head, and lay down in that place

    Exodus 22:27
    27 for it alone is his covering, it his garment for his skin; wherein doth he lie down? and it hath come to pass, when he doth cry unto Me, that I have heard, for I [am] gracious.

    But I don't use the OT as the reason that I reject homosexuality. I'm a Christian, so I obey the New Testament.
    (more)
  • marianne gracious43 2012/06/09 16:57:13
    marianne
    +1
    thanks for the info, however it -the bible- still has as many interpretations as there are colors in a rainbow.

    also, how would you explain those who have been born with ambiguous sexual dna. there are some sort of ambiguity in as many as 1 percent in the population, which would make it over 3 million americans alone.

    is there an exception for them?

    why are you using old testament is some quotes?
    didn't you tell me how leviticus is not relevant?
  • gracious43 marianne 2012/06/09 17:34:53
    gracious43
    The reason I quoted Leviticus is that was the verse you asked me to explain. Didn't you know that it was a Leviticus passage?

    "unless i was an expert in those ancient languages, i would not swear on validity of the scriptures.
    point in case, melissa scott, who interprets bible pointed out that one part where it said 'man can not lay with a man' actually meant that a man can not conceive with another man...... .;-]

    There are not many interpretations of the bible. That is simply an untruth that is spread by bible cynics that do not want to believe the bible, regardless.

    Genetic deformities and sexual ambiguity does not cause homosexuality. There is no indication of that. Nor do the account for the number of homosexuals currently. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the physical or genetic make-up of homosexuals. It is a matter of their minds, not their genes. The mind is corruptible and mutable.
  • marianne gracious43 2012/06/09 18:18:09
    marianne
    thanks, again,

    i will have to ask this again; those who were born xxy,
    can you determine if they are a man or a woman, and who should they marry?

    if 1 out of 1000 are xxy, that would make over 300.000 us citizens and worldwide over 7 million people.

    maybe there is an answer for this in the bible?

    http://www.isna.org/faq/frequ...
    Not XX and not XY one in 1,666 births
    Klinefelter (XXY) one in 1,000 births
    Androgen insensitivity syndrome one in 13,000 births
    Partial androgen insensitivity syndrome one in 130,000 births
    Classical congenital adrenal hyperplasia one in 13,000 births
    Late onset adrenal hyperplasia one in 66 individuals
    Vaginal agenesis one in 6,000 births
    Ovotestes one in 83,000 births
    Idiopathic (no discernable medical cause) one in 110,000 births
    Iatrogenic (caused by medical treatment, for instance progestin administered to pregnant mother) no estimate
    5 alpha reductase deficiency no estimate
    Mixed gonadal dysgenesis no estimate
    Complete gonadal dysgenesis one in 150,000 births
    Hypospadias (urethral opening in perineum or along penile shaft) one in 2,000 births
    Hypospadias (urethral opening between corona and tip of glans penis) one in 770 births
    Total number of people whose bodies differ from standard male or female one in 100 births
    Total number of people receiving surgery to “norm...
    thanks, again,

    i will have to ask this again; those who were born xxy,
    can you determine if they are a man or a woman, and who should they marry?

    if 1 out of 1000 are xxy, that would make over 300.000 us citizens and worldwide over 7 million people.

    maybe there is an answer for this in the bible?

    http://www.isna.org/faq/frequ...
    Not XX and not XY one in 1,666 births
    Klinefelter (XXY) one in 1,000 births
    Androgen insensitivity syndrome one in 13,000 births
    Partial androgen insensitivity syndrome one in 130,000 births
    Classical congenital adrenal hyperplasia one in 13,000 births
    Late onset adrenal hyperplasia one in 66 individuals
    Vaginal agenesis one in 6,000 births
    Ovotestes one in 83,000 births
    Idiopathic (no discernable medical cause) one in 110,000 births
    Iatrogenic (caused by medical treatment, for instance progestin administered to pregnant mother) no estimate
    5 alpha reductase deficiency no estimate
    Mixed gonadal dysgenesis no estimate
    Complete gonadal dysgenesis one in 150,000 births
    Hypospadias (urethral opening in perineum or along penile shaft) one in 2,000 births
    Hypospadias (urethral opening between corona and tip of glans penis) one in 770 births
    Total number of people whose bodies differ from standard male or female one in 100 births
    Total number of people receiving surgery to “normalize” genital appearance one or two in 1,000 births
    (more)
  • gracious43 marianne 2012/06/09 19:20:38
    gracious43
    +1
    Kleinfelter's syndrome is a birth defect that has nothing whatsoever to do with homosexuality. This is a scanned page of my textbook "The Principles of Clinical Cytogenetcis, editors Steven L. Gersen and Martha B Keagle Humana press New Jersey page 236


    kleinfelter syndrome
  • marianne gracious43 2012/06/09 22:00:15
    marianne
    +1
    thanks again, so are they male or female?
    i enjoy mostly learning from this site, and i much rather talk with those who disagree with me, thanks for being such a 'good sport' thanks
  • gracious43 marianne 2012/06/10 03:21:35
    gracious43
    Oh I don't mind at all. I'm sorry I gave you such short shift several hours ago. I was running late to a get-together at a friend's house.

    Okay, this is a little biology lesson. It is really easy, and I love to teach biology. But this is easy. Whenever you see a sex chromosome type with a Y--the individual is male.

    XX--female

    XY--male

    And it doesn't matter how many Xs are with it--that is simply chromosome deformities, which are really woeful. But if it has a Y, the individual is a male.

    So Klinefelter's Syndrome 47,XXY is a male. They are always male.

    And by the way, this isn't the only Sex Chromosome abnormality that you find in birth defects. There are many other variants, and even variants with two Ys--such as 48,YYY and 49,XYYYY

    But if you see a Y, it is always a male. A deformed male, yes, but regardless, a male.

    In the same way there are Sex Chromosome abnormalites among females, such as 47,XXX and 25,X and 48,XXXX.

    None of these lead to homosexuality however. They frequently lead to other limitations or complications, such as lowered intellegence.

    In Turner's syndrome (45,X and other variations) patients will require hormones and there is some phenotypic traits, although not every girl has them.




    Oh I don't mind at all. I'm sorry I gave you such short shift several hours ago. I was running late to a get-together at a friend's house.

    Okay, this is a little biology lesson. It is really easy, and I love to teach biology. But this is easy. Whenever you see a sex chromosome type with a Y--the individual is male.

    XX--female

    XY--male

    And it doesn't matter how many Xs are with it--that is simply chromosome deformities, which are really woeful. But if it has a Y, the individual is a male.

    So Klinefelter's Syndrome 47,XXY is a male. They are always male.

    And by the way, this isn't the only Sex Chromosome abnormality that you find in birth defects. There are many other variants, and even variants with two Ys--such as 48,YYY and 49,XYYYY

    But if you see a Y, it is always a male. A deformed male, yes, but regardless, a male.

    In the same way there are Sex Chromosome abnormalites among females, such as 47,XXX and 25,X and 48,XXXX.

    None of these lead to homosexuality however. They frequently lead to other limitations or complications, such as lowered intellegence.

    In Turner's syndrome (45,X and other variations) patients will require hormones and there is some phenotypic traits, although not every girl has them.

    Turner s syndrome


    Turner s syndrome
    (more)
  • marianne gracious43 2012/06/10 07:28:39
    marianne
    +1
    thanks, that was cool info, i was not aware of the multiples in x' and y's, but i know someone very close to me, who was diagnosed with a genetic abnormality, at the time there were only 2 other cases known worldwide, and luckily there were no extras, nor anything missing, and the symptoms were not severe.

    regarding gays.....
    back when i was in grammar school, there was a friend who was just a bit different, always nice, and when i learned many years later, that he was gay, it seemed like so logical thing, i think that it sort of put some puzzle pieces together. my heart aches for the pain that lgbt people have and still are going thru.
    i don't think that i will ever stop supporting their long and arduous process of being accepted, so i enjoyed our chat, and wish you well, and maybe we'll get to disagree again in the future. bye
  • gracious43 marianne 2012/06/09 19:47:45
  • gracious43 marianne 2012/06/09 19:51:20
    gracious43
    Okay my apologies for my limited technical skills. As I stated this is a scanned page of my textbook on cytogenetics. This is the information on Klinefelter syndrome which you asked me about.

    Klinefelters has nothing to do with homosexuality. If you happen to go down to the 4th paraagraph, the 9th line down, you will notice that all of these individuals are heterosexual. Their intelligence is limited, but it does not make them homosexual.

    I hav taken far too long trying to get this uploaded, and I apologise for not discussing it more. I will finish when I get home. I'm running late for an appointment.
  • gracious43 gracious43 2012/06/09 19:44:09
  • Elmo~WA... gracious43 2012/06/22 05:41:16
    Elmo~WAWU~Bn-2~
    Studying the scriptures so much that you can quote them will not strengthen your relationship with God. The Bible is outdated. Who is to say that in the last few hundred years God himself has not evolved along with our race? Who is to say he has not changed his mind about gay people, having watched them?

    Watching and listening to God is what makes you a Christian. Understanding him, loving him and respecting him is what makes you a Christian. Not knowing the book a few men wrote hundreds of years ago about what they thought he wanted off by heart.
  • gracious43 Elmo~WA... 2012/06/22 17:35:14
    gracious43
    If God has changed, then He most certainly hasn't made a statement to mankind to that effect. The last information that He has given mankind was that obedience to His written word was essential to a relationship with Him. If you are hoping that He has evolved beyond that, that is your choice. You just don't have any authority or documentation that this is true.


    2 Timothy 3:15-17
    15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
  • Israel marianne 2012/04/24 15:21:33
  • marianne Israel 2012/06/05 21:59:27
    marianne
    thanks for asking, just like now , i was typing.... hello... 9th district refused prop 8
  • Israel marianne 2012/06/05 22:35:04
  • marianne Israel 2012/06/05 23:35:25
    marianne
    sorry, i just could not resist the pun.
    my god is loving and not as hung up on who loves who.
    it is only a matter of time, and the discrimination will end..... ;]
  • Israel marianne 2012/06/06 18:53:04
  • marianne Israel 2012/06/07 07:32:51
    marianne
    +1
    if jesus were [is] here today, no doubt he will be hanging out with lbgt crowd. .... hallelujah............;-] lbgt
  • Israel marianne 2012/06/07 10:12:03
  • marianne Israel 2012/06/07 10:23:58
    marianne
    how does one know this? jesus coming
  • Israel marianne 2012/06/07 17:46:25
  • marianne Israel 2012/06/08 14:56:49
    marianne
    lol funny religion

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