Religion vs. Atheism: Why do you believe as you do?

Irrelevant to the question I asked.

So you're not interested in the truth, only in your manipulated version of it. Got it.

OF course I am interested but you have given me nothing to go by. You think only you know the truth. A arrogant and B inaccurate.

The trouble with your claim that "nothing can truly be said to have happened unless it has been observed" is the definition of the word "observed." In everyday use, you have to look at something or make a measurement to observe it, but in quantum mechanics, all you have to do to observe a particle and make it real is to put something near it, like a photon of light or an electromagnetic field. You can observe things by shining light at them, you can observe things by controlling them with an electromagnetic or gravitational field... heck, a lamp can be real if it's simply sitting on a desk exerting a force on the desk.

There's also the problem in the last sentence. If the universe can't happen without being observed, neither can God, unless he can observe himself and make his body real.

I'm not trying to disprove your theory, because I understand where you're coming from, and because I'm not one to crush people's beliefs. I'm trying to help you improve your explanation by pointing out the errors so you can patch them.

Your first paragraph has merit and I will look into that.
But you missed something I said elsewhere about God being 'outside' of the spacetime continuum, and so not subject to its rules.
So what was 'near' the Big Bang when it occurred?

How can you assume he is out side the space continuum ?

I assume nothing. I read the Bible. God said, Let there be light, and [BANG] there was light. Since that light was the start of the universe, God had to be outside of it.

You assume the Bible to be real. The Bible is a book of folk lore.

THAT is YOUR assumption.

Again you have nothing but you faith to back up your claims.

Why should I bother when you won't even read the information I HAVE given you?

Because it is false data and proves nothing.

Who knows? It could be God reaching out and turning the light on for our universe, if he exists. It could be another universe, if our universe is part of a Russian nesting-doll of universes as some researchers believe. It could be a burst of energy from nearby that set the fireworks off. There are even theories that the Big Bang was nothing more than a collision between two universes. No one was there to see the universe begin except God, so only God knows. Lots of possible answers, though.

You said:
"Science has only recently figured out that nothing can truly be said to have happened unless it has been observed."

Exactly when did "science" do this, and by what experimental method? That sounds like a ridiculous claim. Things happen constantly, with no one seeing them. Events are not caused, or dependent upon, anyone's observation.

Read up on quantum physics.

Quantum physics demonsrates no such thing. what quantum physics shows is the limitations on observations on the subatomic level, and that the very act of observing can affect the outcome of the observation. This doesn't signify that nothing happens unless it is observed, but only that observation can affect events. Things still will occur without anyone seeing them.

So is the cat dead or alive?

We won't know till we open the box. But who put the cat there in the first place?

The official answer to the question is 'it is neither alive nor dead until it has been observed'. And the question was first asked by a scientist named Schrodinger.

I'm an agnostic because I realize that there is no way of knowing what happens after you die.

I simply cannot believe what I view as unbelievable, especially when everything is more easily and effectively explained through the sciences.

Agnosticism is not an ontological position, it is an epistemological position.

Put more simply, if you don't have a positive belief that god exists, you are an atheist.

No I'm not an atheist thank you.

Then you are a theist.

Atheism and Theism are statements about your belief, not knowledge. There's no middle ground there upon which to stand. You can say you don't know if god exists or not, but you can't say you don't know if you believe in god.

Often the problem is one of defining the term god and one's position may vary depending on the definition. For example, most people today would state they do not believe the god Zeus exists. Therefore, they are atheists in this regard. Others might also lack belief in the god Jehovah.

Yet they might still believe that there is some intelligence or intelligences that govern the Universe (a pantheistic definition of god) in which case they would be theists.

Thank you for your input but I know what I am.

I'm sure you do. I'm not trying to pick on you personally.

I just find that most people who call themselves Agnostic don't properly understand it's context. It's not a middle ground between believing and not believing, that's impossible. You either have a belief or you do not have that belief.

What's wrong with just not knowing?

What the other person said, but I can clear it up.

Agnostic = unknown Gnostic = knowing.
Atheist = no belief in diety. Theist = belief in a diety(s).

Agnostic Atheist = "I don't know if there is a God, but I don't believe that there is one."
Gnostic Atheist = "I know there is no God and I don't believe in God"
Agnostic Theist = "I don't know if there is a God, but I believe that there is one."
Gnostic Theist = "I know there is a God and I believe in God"

Just trying to clear it up. Nothing in science says there is no creator, but religion makes the creator of this universe too small and alpha male like to take seriously. Any creator by definition would be unnameable, unknowable, and probably beyond the scope of our comprehension at this point in time.

agnosticism, for it is the only logical religion

Agnostic = unknown Gnostic = knowing.
Atheist = no belief in diety. Theist = belief in a diety(s).

Agnostic Atheist = "I don't know if there is a God, but I don't believe that there is one."
Gnostic Atheist = "I know there is no God and I don't believe in God"
Agnostic Theist = "I don't know if there is a God, but I believe that there is one."
Gnostic Theist = "I know there is a God and I believe in God"

that was very informative and I thank you

I consider myself an Agnostic. I practice no religion nor claim there is no god. Since the existence or nonexistence of a deity can not be proven beyond faith that there is or isn't I am happy right where I am. The tenants of many of the worlds religions have there qualities and annoyances.

After finishing the Bible, I became an atheist, due to the lack of originality in the recreation of ancient mythology, and the down right despicable way that people interpret. Most people STILL believe that the Morning Star is satan...when it is clearly a human babylonian king.



But what made me a spiritual person, alas Gnostic, was when I came to the acceptance that even Science accepts the possibility of a creator, and math itself I believe is the language of God....now I simply do not believe in Abrahamic religions in a religious context. Since i refuse to believe that a perfect God is insane, bipolar.



But I can believe he is ADD

Just because I'm labeled an atheist.

God is imaginary.

There is no god.

Jesus loves me and he died on the cross for my sins.

Unknowable. Does that mean if you don't sin, jesus died for nothing?

We all sin. No one is perfect.