Obamacare individual mandate! Is it a tax or a fee? What do you think?

by Redneck Posted 2012/07/13 00:32:27

Related Topics: Tax, History, IRS, Obamacare, Fee, World

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	An addition to the largest tax hike in the history of the world	6 votes	100%
	It's a fee that you pay to the IRS for not doing what you're told.	0 votes	0%

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deborah sletten 2012/09/06 05:23:31

An addition to the largest tax hike in the history of the world

+1
In the 1990's they mandated insurance companies had to insure homosexuals, knowing that the average cost, at that time, was$ 180,000.per each of them, within three years insurance premiums quadrupled for everyone. This mandate of obama's is going to bust this nation , if it isn't stopped.

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beach bum 2012/07/13 08:56:45

An addition to the largest tax hike in the history of the world

tax

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wildbill to beach bum 2012/07/27 01:54:20

+1
What we have learned from Romney Care in Massachusetts is that less than 1% of the population chooses to opt out of the mandate. It is only logical to pay for insurance than it is to pay a penalty with no benefit. Then you STILL have no insurance and have to depend on others to pay for your health care if you are unable. Besides, you could lose everything you own without health insurance.

Why the individual mandate?

These days many conservatives dislike the use of a healthcare mandate to expand insurance coverage. But it wasn't always this way.

In fact, the very idea of an individual healthcare mandate originated from the conservative think-tank The Heritage Foundation.

Moreover, many prominent conservatives have supported the use of the individual healthcare mandate. Some noteworthy conservatives who have supported individual healthcare mandates are:

-President George H. W. Bush
-Speaker Newt Gingrich R-GA
-Senator Orrin Hatch R-UT
-Senator Charles Grassley R-Iowa
-Senator Bob Bennett R-UT
-Senator Christopher Bond R-Missouri
-Senator John Chafer R-RI
-Rep. Bill Thomas R-CA
-And at least 16 other GOP Senators who have since retired from the Senate
http://mittromneycentral.com/...

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Redneck to wildbill 2012/07/27 03:00:36

Fine or Tax?

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wildbill to Redneck 2012/07/27 17:37:27 (edited)

To the 1% who insist on mooching off people who HAVE health insurance and force them to pay THEIR hospital bills that they can't afford, it is a penalty. That penalty goes to either the federal or state govenment. Both Mitt Romney and President Obama have called it a penalty, not a tax. Chief Justice John Roberts calls it a legal tax.

Personally I don't care if you call it a penalty, fine, or tax. If 1% of the population insists on not doing what is best for themselves or the common good, JUST PAY IT.

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Redneck to wildbill 2012/07/27 20:56:39

If they're that rich, couldn't they just pay out of pocket?

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wildbill to Redneck 2012/07/29 00:12:32

It is NOT rich people who don't think they need health insurance. It is usually YOUNG, invincible, people who would tell you they have not been sick a day in their life. However, that demographics are also risk takers. They most likely don't think they need a helmet to ride a motorcycle either. THEY are the ones that are most likely to end up in an emergency room with serious, expensive, injuries that they cannot afford to pay for. So everyone WITH insurance pays for them.
The rich are a different story.
Usually they buy something called 'stop loss' insurance which means they agree to pay up to a certain level of their own health care costs.
But if the payouts reach a certain level, the stop loss policy kicks in to pay the rest.
Even if they COULD afford to pay a million dollars in hospital costs, why should they when they could protect themselves by paying a low cost health insurance premium? They didn't get rich by being foolish.

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Redneck to wildbill 2012/07/29 21:32:37

I don't know where you get the "low cost" idea. It won't be, but we'll have to buy it anyway. I was one of those 20 somethings that didn't have or felt a need for insurance. I went to the hospital one time in my 20s and it turned out to be diptheria. Bad stuff, you don't want it. How about we crack down on people who skip out on paying medical bills instead of punishing those who pay their bills. I've gone most of my life without insurance and I've never skipped out on a payment. There have been times that I've had to wheel and deal with the hospital to get the bill down and set up a payment plan, which hospital will do, but people have to be responcible for themselves and next expect everyone else to take care of them. If people skip out on paying their medical bills, it's only because they're lazy theives. Send the hospital 10 bucks a month until jesus comes back if you have to. Pay something! Whats next, will the government come cook dinner for you if you're not able to cook, that way you get a healthy meal?

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wildbill to Redneck 2012/08/10 00:41:43 (edited)

I agree totally about deadbeats who refuse to buy health insurance and then expect everyone WITH insurance to pay those costs when they are unable.So if thier hospital bill is $150,000 and they send in $10/ month it would only take 1250 years to pay the bill. That is why everyone HAS to participate. That adds millions of new customers for the insurance industry to compete for. The larger the health care pool the lower the cost. EVERYONE NEEDS HEALTH INSURANCE. WE are the only nation in the world where you can lose everything you own and everything you will ever make in a lifetime because of a catistrophic illness.
Keep your insurance. The Affordable Health Care Act went into effect in Nov of 2009 and our health insurance has not only gone down, but NOW we have MORE protection. Now they can't drop us because we get sick. Now an amulance can take us to the CLOSEST hospital and we are covered even if that hospital is not in our insurance system. Now we are not restricted to a million dollar lifetime limit in coverage.. Now our insurance company gladly pays our membership in the Y and encourages us to go cause it saves them money by keeping us healthy. ( the Silver Sneaker Program) Because of the Affordable Health Care Act many insurance volunteered to save money by using prevent...

I agree totally about deadbeats who refuse to buy health insurance and then expect everyone WITH insurance to pay those costs when they are unable.So if thier hospital bill is $150,000 and they send in $10/ month it would only take 1250 years to pay the bill. That is why everyone HAS to participate. That adds millions of new customers for the insurance industry to compete for. The larger the health care pool the lower the cost. EVERYONE NEEDS HEALTH INSURANCE. WE are the only nation in the world where you can lose everything you own and everything you will ever make in a lifetime because of a catistrophic illness.
Keep your insurance. The Affordable Health Care Act went into effect in Nov of 2009 and our health insurance has not only gone down, but NOW we have MORE protection. Now they can't drop us because we get sick. Now an amulance can take us to the CLOSEST hospital and we are covered even if that hospital is not in our insurance system. Now we are not restricted to a million dollar lifetime limit in coverage.. Now our insurance company gladly pays our membership in the Y and encourages us to go cause it saves them money by keeping us healthy. ( the Silver Sneaker Program) Because of the Affordable Health Care Act many insurance volunteered to save money by using preventive care. So now we swim laps an hour 4 times a week and save $1000/ year in membership fees.
Noone has to change insurance. All they need ot do is find the company or program that offers them the best deal.
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Redneck to wildbill 2012/08/10 02:42:15

You're post is awful long winded, so excuse me because I didn't read it all. I'm sure it's very thought provoking, really. You talk about "larger the health care pool, the lower the cost". You bet, you're absolutely right. Why can't the president lock the big whigs of the largest insurance carriers in the country in the oval office and not let them out until they come up with a comprehensive insurance policy, that if, say, 100 million people buy into, the price will be managable? Then, the government can encourage companies to move their employee insurance into this new universal policy that covers all or most of the things that Obama care does. Therefore, growing the number of people in it. Then, if someone who is working, skips out on their medical bills, when affordable insurance was available, they get their butts prosecuted. For those who don't have access to this universal policy will most likely be eligable for medicaid anyway. That way you get affordable insurance that is free market and people have options in their health care. Believe me, Obamacare isn't going to be the bird nest on the ground that some think it will be. My company is already gearing us up for the changes that are coming and the elderly are going to suffer. You're going to get limits to t...

You're post is awful long winded, so excuse me because I didn't read it all. I'm sure it's very thought provoking, really. You talk about "larger the health care pool, the lower the cost". You bet, you're absolutely right. Why can't the president lock the big whigs of the largest insurance carriers in the country in the oval office and not let them out until they come up with a comprehensive insurance policy, that if, say, 100 million people buy into, the price will be managable? Then, the government can encourage companies to move their employee insurance into this new universal policy that covers all or most of the things that Obama care does. Therefore, growing the number of people in it. Then, if someone who is working, skips out on their medical bills, when affordable insurance was available, they get their butts prosecuted. For those who don't have access to this universal policy will most likely be eligable for medicaid anyway. That way you get affordable insurance that is free market and people have options in their health care. Believe me, Obamacare isn't going to be the bird nest on the ground that some think it will be. My company is already gearing us up for the changes that are coming and the elderly are going to suffer. You're going to get limits to treatment, which means more cut off points. You can say it aint true all you want, I've seen it on paper. In my opinion, the only people I owe anything to are children and the elderly who are unable to work. Okay, that was long winded. Sorry. I'll go back and read all of yours.
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wildbill to Redneck 2012/08/10 17:46:44

Regarding 'Limits to treatment," or rationing.

National Public Radio:

Doctors Say Health Care Rationing Already Exists

"In America, we strictly ration health care. We've done it for years," says Dr. Arthur Kellermann, professor of emergency medicine and associate dean for health policy at Emory University School of Medicine. "But in contrast to other wealthy countries, we don't ration medical care on the basis of need or anticipated benefit. In this country, we mainly ration on the ability to pay. And that is especially evident when you examine the plight of the uninsured in the United States."
http://www.npr.org/templates/...

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Redneck to wildbill 2012/08/11 05:45:02

The article is right, mostly. It's my experiance that often times, the decision whether to perform joint replacements are done so based on whether the person will get full benefit out of it. Sometimes you have to make decisions like that or every 100 year old involute in the country will want a new hip hoping they'll walk. I wouldn't say that health care itself if rationed right now, but it will be. What is currently being rationed by medicare is issuance of ambulatory devices.

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Redneck to wildbill 2012/09/06 13:10:02

Okay, that was long winded. I don't concern myself with folks as yourself and I. The only people I owe anything to are the elderly and children with deadbeat parents. Able bodied working age people are on their own. Work more. I do work in the health care industry and it's my responcibility to follow changes in medicare regulations. This law is going to deminish the quality of health care for medicare recipiants. I've studied it over and over again and I don't see how it can not.

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wildbill to Redneck 2012/09/16 05:31:21

"The Affordable Care Act makes many changes to strengthen Medicare and provide stronger benefits to seniors, while slowing cost growth. As a result, average Medicare beneficiary savings in traditional Medicare will be approximately $3,500 over the next ten years. Beneficiaries who have high prescription drug spending will save much more – as much as $12,300 over the next 10 years. In comparison, Medicare beneficiaries with low drug costs will save an average of $2,400 over 10 years.

This report provides estimates of savings from the Affordable Care Act to seniors and people living with disabilities enrolled in traditional Medicare. The Affordable Care Act will favorably affect beneficiary expenditures in four ways."
http://www.healthcare.gov/law...

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beach bum to wildbill 2012/07/30 09:20:36

thanks

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Zeruke 2012/07/13 03:44:00 (edited)

An addition to the largest tax hike in the history of the world

a fee is a tax when dealing with the government even for a drivers licence

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Flamingolady 2012/07/13 02:16:07

An addition to the largest tax hike in the history of the world

It was always meant to be a tax. Also, it is unsustainable in any form. Total stupidity. And, it is NOT FREE!!!!!

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Simmering Frog 2012/07/13 00:59:29

An addition to the largest tax hike in the history of the world

It's a tax no matter how much Obama lies about it.

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Sister Jean 2012/07/13 00:35:59

An addition to the largest tax hike in the history of the world

tax

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Redneck to Sister ... 2012/07/13 00:39:01

+1
Thank you Sis.

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