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Is organized religion just a business of snake oil salesmen?

bob 2012/05/29 14:52:03
Related Topics: Religion, Business, Snake, Oil
Organized religion is just a business of snake oil salesmen and business is booming
Organized religion is not just a business
You can buy your way into heaven
Science including evolution is real, where as organized religion is a man made fanatics
All of the above
None of the above
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  • Che Guevara - Hero 2012/05/29 15:13:58
    Organized religion is just a business of snake oil salesmen and business is b...
    Che Guevara - Hero
    +9
    Organized Religion is a fraud. Just look at the people on SH who call themselves "Christian". You probably won't find a more hateful and ignorant group of people anywhere on the internet.

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  • Mike 2012/05/30 22:06:43
    None of the above
    Mike
    look and you shall find, ignore and cast doubt and you will never be able to travel the road that is on a knifes edge
  • bob Mike 2012/06/12 14:01:09
    bob
    hocus pocus.. poof
  • kiwimac 2012/05/30 10:09:25
    None of the above
    kiwimac
    +2
    Religion is a part of the human condition.
  • Fenabarb 2012/05/30 05:55:54
    Science including evolution is real, where as organized religion is a man mad...
    Fenabarb
    +1
    and all the above
  • Theresa 2012/05/30 02:23:17
    Organized religion is just a business of snake oil salesmen and business is b...
    Theresa
    +1
    Even Jesus was upset with the Organized Religion in His day... says something huh? Jesus with the money changers at the temple
  • Muskoka Theresa 2012/05/30 05:04:27
    Muskoka
    Story telling was alive an well back then too. That does not mean it really happened.
  • Chanch Theresa 2012/05/30 11:20:29
    Chanch
    You have no idea what this picture was about do you ?
  • Theresa Chanch 2012/06/14 01:54:08
    Theresa
    yes, in fact I do..
  • bob Theresa 2012/05/30 14:24:15
    bob
    his live force reincarnated in this lifetime is pissed off about organized religion also
  • Mike Theresa 2012/06/12 16:08:47
    Mike
    thats a picture of the money exchangers. aka the wall street of the past. he was angry people were using his church for thievery. much like the guys who call themselves gods disciples today and steal all they can
  • Theresa Mike 2012/06/14 01:55:29
    Theresa
    yes I know that..I believe that He was frustrated with the whole organized by man religion
  • Mike Theresa 2012/06/16 02:14:16
    Mike
    the organization was not the problem. the fact the clergy used their position to further their own secret agenda to enrich themselves a lot like the false profits of today
  • Chanch 2012/05/30 01:15:31
    None of the above
    Chanch
    +1
    A very wise person once said. " Ifthere is no God,then we need one". It's real if you believe and have faith.
  • Muskoka Chanch 2012/05/30 05:05:15
    Muskoka
    Belief and faith is not based on knowledge, proof, evidence or facts.
  • Chanch Muskoka 2012/05/30 11:11:13
    Chanch
    Believe what you will. Not trying to persuade anyone of anything. I choose to believe !
  • Chanch Muskoka 2012/05/30 11:21:41
    Chanch
    Kinda like the Canadians,huh?
  • ALofRI 2012/05/29 21:09:05
    Organized religion is not just a business
    ALofRI
    It is a way to generate control of millions of people to fashion a world in a form that is acceptable to, and supportive of, a number of fanatics that believe THEY are the next thing to GOD! "Follow ME, and I will lead you to GOD!"
  • prayer warrior 2012/05/29 20:49:15
    None of the above
    prayer warrior
    Religion is a way of life and many believe in ti.
  • KarenInKenoshaWisconsin 2012/05/29 19:42:19 (edited)
    None of the above
    KarenInKenoshaWisconsin
    +1
    Any religion, nonreligious ideology or school of thought, for that matter, can be treated like snake oil and "sold" to others and can be used in abusive, or just plain dumb, power struggles. Stuff like that is even behind our national and global economic crisis, in fact (look into the ideational forces driving the current national and global economic crises; there's a school of thought behind it that ruled the day and still has its hands in numerous cookie jars). Stuff like this happens because most people don't understand the different natures of power or the concepts behind it. They don't understand the variety and they can't better differentiate. And they don't understand imagination's key role in...just about everything!



    http://sari0009.xanga.com/559...
    http://sari0009.xanga.com/603...


    And it's not just power they don't have a better grasp of, it's all the different forms love and reciprocity.



    http://sari0009.xanga.com/762...
    http://sari0009.xanga.com/762...


    As for religion...



    Orthodoxy. Orthodoxy is about correct beliefs, basically. In our part of the world, organized religion is almost all monotheistic and so it tells you what you must believe, or else. Luckily we don't have to belong to any particular religion or its denominations in my country (the U.S.), but you if you don'...

































































    Any religion, nonreligious ideology or school of thought, for that matter, can be treated like snake oil and "sold" to others and can be used in abusive, or just plain dumb, power struggles. Stuff like that is even behind our national and global economic crisis, in fact (look into the ideational forces driving the current national and global economic crises; there's a school of thought behind it that ruled the day and still has its hands in numerous cookie jars). Stuff like this happens because most people don't understand the different natures of power or the concepts behind it. They don't understand the variety and they can't better differentiate. And they don't understand imagination's key role in...just about everything!



    http://sari0009.xanga.com/559...
    http://sari0009.xanga.com/603...


    And it's not just power they don't have a better grasp of, it's all the different forms love and reciprocity.



    http://sari0009.xanga.com/762...
    http://sari0009.xanga.com/762...


    As for religion...



    Orthodoxy. Orthodoxy is about correct beliefs, basically. In our part of the world, organized religion is almost all monotheistic and so it tells you what you must believe, or else. Luckily we don't have to belong to any particular religion or its denominations in my country (the U.S.), but you if you don't believe whatever, you still can get excommunicated and even ostracized by friends and family who are still in the religion. Not that any religion can't be guilty of it, they can be, but monotheism tends to get into identity clash after identity clash, and if it isn't engaging in actual religious wars, then enough people in monotheism are always engaged in "culture" wars...which are really religious wars too.



    Many dogmatic religions originally had more emphasis on correct behaviors but lost a lot of that focus over time. Some within various monotheisms and their denominations are calling to bring a greater emphasis on correct behaviors or orthopraxic elements (e.g. "Love thy neighbor," a form of reciprocal ethics).



    Orthopraxy. Orthopraxy is about correct practices. Orthopraxic religions are focused on correct practices/behaviors, including but not limited to hospitality, equality, ritual, reciprocal ethics, logic, and much more. Some orthopraxies may have some dogma (what you have to believe or else). Other orthopraxies (ADF Druidry, for example) may only have tenets (what is held to be true but may subject to tweaking and updating because other arts and disciplines, like the sciences, inform orthopraxic religions).



    When I say that something does not equal (≠) the other it doesn't mean that things can't coexist but that one doesn't, as an axiom, equal or cause the other. When many answer polls like this one, it's obvious that perhaps most are erroneously **equating** religion with religionism (the idea that religion is sufficient as major lens with with to view and interpret all) or that they're **equating** dogma with religion.



    Religion ≠ Religionism

    Religion ≠ Dogma



    Now, about false dilemmas. When people equate like Religion = Dogma, they often fall into certain false dilemma traps. A false dilemma is when you take all of reality, all possible options, and often people, and divide them into two supposedly opposite choices when there are many choices and these choices often are not opposites. Here are two common false dilemmas raging today. I'll start with the oldest first.



    The Forces of Good™ vs. The Forces of Evil™ (Monotheism)

    Rationalism vs. Religion (The Rationalists new and improved false dilemma, heh)



    So it's not just religious folk that do the divisive 'us vs. them' crap by blaming religion, the "wrong" religion or lack of religion for all that's wrong with the world. The new dualism (Rationalism vs. Religion) is not much of an improvement and it's still a false dilemma...which is a logic error and that makes it...irrational.



    Most of the choices in this poll here divisively fall in line with one or more of the above false dilemmas. Ugh. We have other choices. These other choices of religion or spirituality are not all opposites (like good and evil), and comparing them is often like comparing apples to oranges. Below is a partial list but it covers a lot of territory, so here it goes.



    Atheism – there are no Gods

    Agnosticism -- there may be Gods but I don't care to define them, they are ineffable

    Pantheism -- the physical world is divine

    Panentheism -- the Gods are everywhere

    Polytheism -- there is more than one God

    Animism -- everything is alive

    Monism -- everything that exists is one being

    Monotheism – there is the one and only true God

    Nontheism -- the recognition that there are gods but the concept that they are not the best focus (various right actions and right thinking that translate into higher levels of reciprocity and love in mankind may often be thought as the better focus in nontheistic religions)

    ... and yet other religions or paths ...



    Regardless of whether you choose to have religion, regardless of whether you choose to get into religionism, and regardless of whether you're and atheist, agnostic or some form of 'spiritual but not religious' path, be it organized or not -- we humans are never going to hammer out a lot of our prevalent problems if we don't learn about the natures of power, imagination, love, reciprocity, logic and so on.



    We have to solve problems at the root level or they just keep on coming back dressed up a bit differently. Really.
    (more)
  • Night71 2012/05/29 19:35:52
    Organized religion is just a business of snake oil salesmen and business is b...
    Night71
    +2
    Religion is the death of human rights.
  • Zeruke 2012/05/29 19:30:08
    None of the above
    Zeruke
    organized religion is not a business but there are people that make it so and its usually just a small portion
  • bob Zeruke 2012/05/29 19:36:01
    bob
    +1
    yea sure, like the catholic church is not a business... at least you've made me laugh
  • Zeruke bob 2012/05/29 19:55:20 (edited)
    Zeruke
    im talking bout in general like how you worded the question including the small set up were the people just gather for a while and then go home afterwords like one of those christian groups near here that meat under an overpass with just some folding chairs
  • Muskoka Zeruke 2012/05/30 05:07:52
    Muskoka
    religion has always been about collecting money from the masses in any way possible.
  • kitkat42 2012/05/29 18:31:48
    Organized religion is just a business of snake oil salesmen and business is b...
    kitkat42
    +2
    And its all about $$$$$
  • prosperhappily 2012/05/29 18:19:35
    None of the above
    prosperhappily
    +1
    Most of the religious people I know seem to honestly believe in their faith.

    But, I wonder what makes them so sure. They make all kinds of competing claims. But, when you ask them to back them up, they point you to their holy book. when you point out that there are many different holy books & they can't all be right, they claim that only theirs is right. Again, you ask how do you know that. At that point they run out of answers.

    I just say I have no idea what happens in the next world, if there is one.
  • Nam Era Vet #1 DNA TLC 2012/05/29 18:19:12
    Organized religion is not just a business
    Nam Era Vet #1 DNA TLC
    +1
    I understand what you are saying. But I don't think much of what has been done in the name of Jesus would be approved of by Jesus. Some of us out here try very hard to be spiritual. I mess up. But the REAL Jesus was about love and helping others.
  • Muskoka Nam Era... 2012/05/30 05:09:08
    Muskoka
    Just like most christian you do not appear to have read the OT.
  • Nam Era... Muskoka 2012/05/30 17:03:30 (edited)
    Nam Era Vet #1 DNA TLC
    My dear non Christian, I have read the OT. And I have also read the NT which you may not know says in the book of Galatians that OT laws and ways were made null and void by the coming of Jesus. So that way is the new way we are supposed to follow. If you don't believe me, read the book of Galatians. The entire book says that Christ nullified all the OT stuff with his new law, the law of Agape (higher love). Much love forever. And thanks for your reply. :-)
  • Muskoka Nam Era... 2012/06/12 04:02:35
    Muskoka
    Then you forget this scripture

    Jesus also said: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. Mathew 5:18
  • Nam Era... Muskoka 2012/06/16 00:30:53
    Nam Era Vet #1 DNA TLC
    Yep and you are not catching ther entire meaning of that Bible verse. By fulfilling the Law aand prophets He meant that he came to fulfill the propmise of a new covenant. If the Laws are still in effect, then Jesus died for nothing. I suggest you actually read the book of Galatians. Galatians 2:21 New International Version (©1984)
    I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!

    Right now all you see isthat verse withiut completely understanding that it means He fulfills the law and the prophets by the New Covenant which nullifies the OT laws.
  • Muskoka Nam Era... 2012/06/17 13:50:09
    Muskoka
    +1
    Sorry, but that is lame rhetoric and you know it.

    Christians always want to nullify the OT for their own convenience. But it remains just the same and they use it when it serves their own agenda as well.

    The most typical part of that is Leviticus and issues around homosexual behavior. That raises its ugly head daily and is repeated by christian with fervor whenever it suite them to point fingers at anyone they want to direct their bigotry at.

    The same goes for the Story of Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis. That story is notoriously quoted to me, even though the majority of christian have no idea what the REAL meaning of the story is, and it is not about homosexual behavior at all.
  • Nam Era... Muskoka 2012/06/17 18:40:27 (edited)
    Nam Era Vet #1 DNA TLC
    o I do not know that it is lame rhetoric. And most if not all of those "Christians" have no understanding of the real Jesus or why he came, if they say the OT laws are still in effect. How many of them are circumcised? That is required in the OT. How many of them have tassels on their clothing? That is required in the OT. How many of them don't eat pork? That is forbidden in the OT. If the New Testament does not nullify all those old Levitical rules, then why are we not sacrificing sheep and cattle at the Temple in Jerusalem as required by the OT laws.
    And what about the Sabbath? If the OT laws are still in effect, why do "Christians" who follow the OT celebrate the New Sabbath on Sunday instead of from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday?

    Do people wear mixed fabric in their clothing like cotton and synthetic materials? That is forbidden in the OT.

    You see this is the mistake that was made by those who tried to distort the early church. And it is dead wrong. And is condemned throughout the NEW TESTAMENT. which is what REAL "Christians": are supposed to be living by.

    All the rules that I follow are in the NT. I give you my word on that.

    You will find that I am different from all those who try to take us back to the old ways.
  • Muskoka Nam Era... 2012/06/18 04:20:43
    Muskoka
    +1
    It is not a few who are using the OT to condemn other it is the majority who are using the OT as a weapon for bigotry and discrimination.
    I have no problem with anyone's religion as long as they keep it to themselves and not try to oppress other groups and demand that laws be made to suite their ideology. But that is how society has been run for centuries with christians and they are used to getting their way.

    Now that other groups are expecting basic human rights, christians are howling at the moon and calling it unfair. I guess when you have had special treatment for years you get used to it.
  • Nam Era... Muskoka 2012/06/18 04:26:44
    Nam Era Vet #1 DNA TLC
    +1
    I think you and I agree on what you just typed above. So I'll just say have a great week. Nice exchange of ideas. Later.
  • Sew 2012/05/29 18:10:19
    All of the above
    Sew
    +2
    Organized religion is the woe of man.
  • Chanch Sew 2012/05/30 11:14:34
    Chanch
    Especially the unbelievers !
  • Sew Chanch 2012/05/30 17:43:02
    Sew
    Yeah, the harass us and then get upset when we tell them they're full of crap.
  • Chanch Sew 2012/06/14 02:13:49
    Chanch
    I think we know where the crap is. I'm not harassing you. we just try to inform you of where we stand. You want us to be more tolerant then show your intolerance of us. One sided,huh?
  • rand 2012/05/29 16:56:29
    Organized religion is not just a business
    rand
    There are churches where spirituality takes precedence, but I understand the point of the question.

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