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Is it possable for this country (US) or any country to tax its way into prosperity? Yes or No, give a reason for answer.

Brian 2011/10/15 09:15:58
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  • ☆stillthe12c☆ 2011/10/17 21:35:28
    ☆stillthe12c☆
    No,You can not tax your way to prosperity.. It will take action to fix this country. The tree huger's and anti-capitalist will not let it happen. The Government only need to announce that they are going to allow the drilling to begin in the gulf and in Anwar and that they are going to fix the tax codes and remove the Loopholes. Also that they are going to overhaul the regulation that make mfg, easier. Then they can use the tax income increases to start working on the infrastructure. The other thing would be to start prosecuting more of these wall street People that created the Banking problem. This may include investigating some of our people in Congress and their connections to some of these people. The States need to take care of their own money problems like my state California. The States created their own problems and need to make hard choice to fix them.
  • Hobbitt / Oldsquid 2011/10/15 16:14:45
    Hobbitt / Oldsquid
    +2
    Nope...cannot be done just look at Greece.
  • rand 2011/10/15 14:11:30
    rand
    Ancient republics pillaged and plundered their ways to "prosperity". Given that (hopefully) the U.S. won't do that, taxation is necessary. The most successful countries today have an equitable system of taxation. Done well it can contribute to prosperity.
  • Hobbitt... rand 2011/10/15 16:16:26
    Hobbitt / Oldsquid
    +1
    Please tell me what kind of hallucinogenic you are takiing...look at Greece to see you cannot tax to prosperity...name ONE country that has..
  • rand Hobbitt... 2011/10/16 00:32:36
    rand
    Name one government that survives without taxing. It's a matter of degrees, not simplistic dichotomous thinking. We'd have to start by defining "prosperity". Are we talking of material wealth or of the happiness that Bhutan emphasizes?
  • Hobbitt... rand 2011/10/16 02:23:07
    Hobbitt / Oldsquid
    +1
    I am certainly NOT talking about Socialism and having to depend on government for everything..I want Government to be there for protection of the citizenry and leave the rest to me.. I can fend for myself and my family...just leave me alone to do it... and government keep their hands out of my pants pocket.
  • rand Hobbitt... 2011/10/16 04:17:52
    rand
    Unfortunately (or otherwise depending upon ones perspective) the chances for a Libertarian approach such as you would have is defunct. The objective perspective of the historian Durants: "The fear of capitalism has compelled socialism to widen freedom, and the fear of socialism has compelled capitalism to increase equality.” “…to this reconciliation (synthesis of capitalism and socialism) the Western world visibly moves.” From "The Lessons of History" by the Durants.
  • Hobbitt... rand 2011/10/16 04:22:57
    Hobbitt / Oldsquid
    +1
    There cannot be a coexistence between the two.they are an anathema to each other..In socialism / communism the state owns everything and gives to the people that which the state deems necessary... Capitalism provides incentive for hard work in profit, self improvement and satisfaction...there is no incentive to work harder or produce more if the government is just going to take it to give to someone else. these forms of government are incompatible and one cannot pick one from column A and one from column B
  • rand Hobbitt... 2011/10/16 13:54:59
    rand
    Socialism is not as anticapitalistic as is communism, so conflating the 2 makes no sense...except as propaganda. No one with half a brain denies the evidence of the failures of communism. As for the combination of capialism and socialism, Finland and Sweden and and number of countries have managed to pull it off ...so far. Perhaps in the long, long run your take will prove correct. As for now the most competitive countries, the countries with the happiest citizens, the countries with the best systems of education seem to be fulfilling the prediction of the Durants.
  • Hobbitt... rand 2011/10/16 14:35:39
    Hobbitt / Oldsquid
    +2
    I disagree, look at Greece, look at Ireland, this is what happens when you try to marry socialism with capitalism..those who work and produce become disheartened having to support those who do not and eventually they also say the heck with it and become a drain on society until there is no place to take from..Once that happens society implodes and governments default.
  • rand Hobbitt... 2011/10/16 16:29:36
    rand
    We don't disagree. Greece is not Finland. People want to deride "government", but the problem is really government's inherent bureaucracies...entities which inevitably become corrupt with power and lack of accountability. So, the solution is in designing systems with the greatest efficacy possible. Obviously Greece failed in that & apparently Finland has succeeded.
  • Hobbitt... rand 2011/10/16 16:54:39
    Hobbitt / Oldsquid
    +1
    There is also the population disparity...that which works for Finland 2011 estimate population 5,388,417 (New York city has more people than the entire country of Finland) will never work here..that is like saying gertz candy store on the corner of 4th and main can operate exactly like Wal Mart...we are talking apples and oranges...
  • rand Hobbitt... 2011/10/17 00:06:48
    rand
    Which is why I support state's rights and would like to see a significant reduction in the size and scope of the federal government. Again, we don't disagree...except that i make it a point to avoid superlatives like "never", knowing that I'm neither omniscient nor prescient.
  • Hobbitt... rand 2011/10/17 14:52:16
    Hobbitt / Oldsquid
    +1
    Well perhaps never is an inappropriate word, but some things are constant and irreversible. Americans are not Finnish, we do not capitulate easily.
  • Brian Hobbitt... 2011/10/17 18:21:49
    Brian
    I have enjoyed the back and forth comments between you and rand. Both of you stated your points well and without resorting to name calling, which the only way we'll be able to solve our problems in this country.
    I sided with your opinion the most, rands sympathic views of socialism was perplexing given his last comment of states rights and a smaller Fed. Gov.

    I read a quote once that said."The difference between Communism and socialism is, communism is just in a bigger hurry.
  • rand Brian 2011/10/17 18:45:42
    rand
    I won't reread what i've written, but if you've seen a bias one way or the other, let me know. I try to deal in facts and avoid propaganda. Whoever offered you that quote was politically unaware. It's nothing more than an attempt to condemn by association, a common strategy of propagandists.

    As for my political leanings, I'm an old Goldwater Republican whose favorite political writer is/was Karl Popper.
  • Hobbitt... Brian 2011/10/17 19:03:02
    Hobbitt / Oldsquid
    I agree, socialism is merely Communism lite...a stepping stone to a Marxist society.
  • rand Hobbitt... 2011/10/17 18:41:48
    rand
    The only absolute for which I've found no exception is Heraclitus' "The constant is change." With SS and Medicare, the U.S. has already moved in a socialistic direction and I'll be amazed if that gets reversed.

    The Finns tend not to capitulate easily either.

    "Finland was a nation in the Soviet scope. However, the Finns were not all too ready to bow down to the Communist herd and stood strong in the face of threats from the Soviets. Eventually, the threats were called off and two days later, the Soviet Army invaded Finland. World support from the US, UK, France and Sweden all proposed assistance but little of this actually materialized to help the Finns out.

    Though the Fins were outclassed logistically and materially, they were experts on their home turf - trained to fight in ice and snow (not to mention the resolve inherent in the Finn soldier). Infantry were deadly-accurate with their rifles and machine guns to handle blows against the Soviet soldier. Likewise, the use of crude, yet effective, gasoline-based bombs wreaked havoc on the Soviet armor columns. In the end, the Soviet Army was either beaten back or decimated."
  • Hobbitt... rand 2011/10/17 19:06:36
    Hobbitt / Oldsquid
    +1
    i applaud the fins for their resolve...but we are dealing with a bigger threat at this time..The Communists supported IE funded by George Soros and his ilk have a lot of money surprisingly enough they were not complaining about capitalism when it was providing the billions they now use to destroy it.
  • rand Hobbitt... 2011/10/17 19:15:50
    rand
    We have a very different take on what is happening in the U.S. Communism is defunct, proven impossible in the minds of any thinking person, but the term keeps being used as a fearmongering epithet. Arguments against Socialism need to be based upon reason and history. To me the greatest threats to our nation are greed, hate, anger, and ignorance, though ineffectual government will be what is manifest as a result; hence our downgrading by S&P.
    “Society is founded not on the ideals but on the nature of man…” “…known history shows little alteration in the conduct of mankind.” From The Lessons of History by the Durants.

    Please accept my best wishes for you and yours.
  • Hobbitt... rand 2011/10/17 19:41:36
    Hobbitt / Oldsquid
    +1
    You and yours as well, although I doubt we will agree on many social issues we can have a civil discourse. I think the biggest problem with society today is that those with differing views that do have some common ground do not attempt to have such discussions and at least come to some sort of compromise..As much as i despise Socialism I am willing to concede that social Security and Medicare/Medicaid have their place.. I do however think that many entitlements should be either discontinued or at least limited...
  • rand Hobbitt... 2011/10/17 22:00:02
    rand
    I can't say I "despise" socialism, at least not when moderated by capitalism as is the case in those countries that are succeeding with it, but in all other respects your last post find agreement with my thinking. I'll wager that you're a gentleman and a scholar, unlike so many of us GOPers recently.
    “To disagree, one doesn't have to be disagreeable.”
    Barry Goldwater
  • Hobbitt... rand 2011/10/17 22:09:46
    Hobbitt / Oldsquid
    +1
    While I appreciate being called a gentleman and a scholar, I fear I am neither..Just and old retired Navy chief petty officer..who is kind of set in his ways.. I consider myself a Reagan Conservative,,

    Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.
    Ronald Reagan
  • Comment Removed 2011/10/15 12:41:43
    Comment Removed
    +1
    Only in the mind of the mindless liberal.
  • Matt 2011/10/15 11:54:33
    Matt
    +3
    Not until we can spend our way out of debt !
  • Boris Badinov 2011/10/15 11:21:26
    Boris Badinov
    +3
    The government is standing in the way of Free Market prosperity.
  • sylviaplatt 2011/10/15 09:41:26
    sylviaplatt
    +1
    According to the FED Reserve official website a desireable unemployment rate in the US would be 4 or 5%! To get the usa BACK INTO THAT RANGE WOULD REQUIRE MORE STIMULUS AND THE tEA pARTY mOVEMENT DOES NOT WANT THE usa TO GO INTO MORE DEBT TO THE cHINESE! tHE MONEY'S GOTTA COME FROM SOMEWHERE. iT'S A NOBRAINER SITUATION!
  • sylviaplatt 2011/10/15 09:37:21
    sylviaplatt
    +1
    I say it depends on one's definition of prosperity. My prosperity may be your poverty!
  • MAMMY51♥POTL~PWCM~JLA♥ 2011/10/15 09:33:50 (edited)
    MAMMY51♥POTL~PWCM~JLA♥
    +3
    No.
    "We contend that for a nation to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle."
    Sir Winston Churchill
  • Brian MAMMY51... 2011/10/15 11:33:46 (edited)
    Brian
    +2
    You beat me to it, the answer is of course no, it is impossible for a nation to tax its self into prosperity. For as the size of the government grows, so then does the need for more and more taxes, which then out strips the populations ability to pay more taxes, it's like a snake eating its own tail.
  • MAMMY51... Brian 2011/10/15 17:33:39
    MAMMY51♥POTL~PWCM~JLA♥
    LOL
    great minds think a like

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