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If you have your gun ready and a plan to use it if threatened have you not already premeditated killing?

Kyra 2012/07/23 16:40:23
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  • Outta' Here. 2012/07/23 17:10:07
    Outta' Here.
    +10
    I have a spare tire in my car, does that mean I have premeditated getting a flat?
    No, you're planning for the possibility of a need. Nothing more.

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  • Andy 2012/07/27 12:27:45
    Andy
    NO... you are protecting yourself. Killing may be a by product of that protection. Sometimes just showing force is enough to get out of a situation
  • JoeM 2012/07/26 18:13:32
    JoeM
    The "golden Rule, or if you prefer, the quote from Luke 10:25-28, clearly states that a love of God, is first, and , ‘Love your neighbor as you love yourself.’

    Clearly Love of neighbor is predicate on love of self. Primary among the traits of self love is self preservation. there are many cites from the bible, and from every recorded Philosopher from Aristotle to modern theologians that clearly show the love of self is manifest in self preservation. Aristotle and Aquinas both argue at length why the common man must not be deprived the right to carry a sword.
    Today swords are called guns.

    On the contrary, it would be impossible to build an argument that Jesus would deny any ordinary man his right to self defense.
  • Kyra JoeM 2012/07/26 18:17:14
    Kyra
    From Jesus himself....
    “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you." “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven." Matthew 5:38
  • JoeM Kyra 2012/07/26 18:36:04
    JoeM
    who was he talking to, and what was the context?
  • Kyra JoeM 2012/07/27 02:02:28
    Kyra
    Jesus was talking to anyone who would hear..... (full story of matthew 5)

    Matthew 5 Now when Jesus saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, and he began to teach them.

    The Beatitudes

    Jesus said:

    3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
    for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
    4 Blessed are those who mourn,
    for they will be comforted.
    5 Blessed are the meek,
    for they will inherit the earth.
    6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
    for they will be filled.
    7 Blessed are the merciful,
    for they will be shown mercy.
    8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
    for they will see God.
    9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
    for they will be called children of God.
    10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
    for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
    11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

    13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

    14 “You are the light of the worl...

















    Jesus was talking to anyone who would hear..... (full story of matthew 5)

    Matthew 5 Now when Jesus saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, and he began to teach them.

    The Beatitudes

    Jesus said:

    3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
    for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
    4 Blessed are those who mourn,
    for they will be comforted.
    5 Blessed are the meek,
    for they will inherit the earth.
    6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
    for they will be filled.
    7 Blessed are the merciful,
    for they will be shown mercy.
    8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
    for they will see God.
    9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
    for they will be called children of God.
    10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
    for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
    11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

    13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

    14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

    17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

    21 “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.

    23 “Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, 24 leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.

    25 “Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way, or your adversary may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26 Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.

    27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

    31 “It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

    33 “Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not break your oath, but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made.’ 34 But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36 And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37 All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

    38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth. 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

    43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
    (more)
  • Kyra JoeM 2012/07/26 18:18:24
    Kyra
    Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,”and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Romans 13:8-10
  • JoeM Kyra 2012/07/29 18:29:57
    JoeM
    Thank you for being so passionate about it. I think you may wish to ponder the meaning of “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Before you can love others, first you must love yourself. You are being asked by God to use your own self love as the measuring stick for your love of others. Look at what God has to say about self preservation and duty to family.

    The rest of the apparent but non existent dichotomy between our positions comes from the meaning of neighbor. A person that is doing harm or evil is NOT your neighbor in the biblical sense of the word.
  • Kyra JoeM 2012/07/30 00:37:11
    Kyra
    "Love does no harm to a neighbor."
  • Kyra JoeM 2012/07/26 18:19:06
    Kyra
    "Put away your sword," Jesus told him. "Those who use the sword will die by the sword." Matthew26:52
  • JoeM Kyra 2012/07/26 18:38:32
    JoeM
    once again you are taking scripture out of context. What was the circumstance, who was he talking to, how does this single line fit into the complete narrative?
  • Kyra JoeM 2012/07/27 02:04:07
    Kyra
    THOSE who use the sword will die by the sword.
  • Kyra JoeM 2012/07/27 02:05:07
    Kyra
    Please read the bible and see how Jesus speaks.... most everything is in Parables that you have to figure out.
  • WannaBeRSC the Contrarian SOB 2012/07/24 08:34:52
    WannaBeRSC the Contrarian SOB
    +2
    Interesting conjecture. I'd say no.
  • sglmom 2012/07/24 04:29:39
    sglmom
    +2
    Being aware of the Safety needs of yourself, your family ..
    those others around you ..
    being aware enough to know about self-defense ..
    to know how to defend yourself in case of any problem ..
    is called an Aware Citizenry ..

    there's a big difference between being aware, safety conscious ..
    and being a cold-blooded premeditated murderer ..
  • Kyra sglmom 2012/07/28 00:51:55
    Kyra
    The words of the wicked lie in wait for blood, but the speech of the upright rescues them. Proverbs 12:6
  • sglmom Kyra 2012/07/28 03:26:27
    sglmom
    Although I have a heart for all (and will cherish and protect life .. )

    The reality is that words mean little ..
    as the threat comes at you with the intent to take your life ..
    As someone who experienced the sound of the bullet that (THANK GOD) grazed my hair and ear .. and didn't hit elsewhere (The intent of the one .. was to TAKE my life)
    (amongst the many threats I've encountered .... )
    I can say ..
    that SAFETY of innocents ..
    and self-defense .. is what happened that night ..
    I'm just grateful to still be alive, breathing .. active ..
    and the perp .. is .. where it belongs ..
  • Me 2012/07/24 03:58:54
    Me
    +3
    thats self defense
  • Tinka123 2012/07/23 23:00:01
    Tinka123
    +4
    Self-defense isn't murder.
  • Professor Wizard 2012/07/23 20:26:38
    Professor Wizard
    +3
    I wear a seatbelt every time I drive a car - - so am I premeditated to having a car wreck!

    Are single women that take birth control, premeditated to having sex with strangers?

    I have Home Owners Insurance on my house, and made sure it covers flood - - am I then premeditated to flooding my home?

    No.. it is not!
  • Centrist_Bill 2012/07/23 20:01:22
    Centrist_Bill
    No you dont. You have the opinion of putting it away. However its a whole different story IF you pull the trigger and if the person is armed also.
  • Gracie - Proud Conservative 2012/07/23 18:44:12
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    +4
    Of course not, you can prevent death with a gun.
  • Kyra Gracie ... 2012/07/23 19:14:24
    Kyra
    I like your answer.... you don't have to shoot to kill, a good shot can stop any criminal with out killing him.
  • Gracie ... Kyra 2012/07/23 21:29:28
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    +2
    No, you mistake my answer. If you shoot, you shoot to kill. Otherwise you may end up dead. You don't play games with guns.
  • Kyra Gracie ... 2012/07/28 00:52:12
    Kyra
    The words of the wicked lie in wait for blood, but the speech of the upright rescues them. Proverbs 12:6
  • us 2012/07/23 18:30:29
    us
    +3
    No, If you have a gun, sometime you can control the situation and not use the gun,
    but it is there if needed. Just because you have a gun doesn't mean use it. Every situation is different.
  • Anthony Souls 2012/07/23 18:25:55
    Anthony Souls
    +1
    Very crafty, using killing instead of murder to create incongruity :P

    I wouldn't call it a premeditated killing beyond technicalities of definition. I think this question is purposely deceiving and obviously so. :P

    Premeditated killing as in the context of premeditated murder? I would say no. You are not actively engaging and controlling events which will lead to a certain conclusion. You can't predict the future without trying to manipulate it. Therefore, who is to say if a threat will ever come along that's severe enough to warrant killing in response? See that's another crafty area: threatened is another very subjective term: threatened to what degree? Are you normally a very conniving individual? :P lol.

    Back to topic. You aren't coercing your plan into fruition. You aren't carrying out a plan, per say, but acknowledging an action without ill-intent based on the plans of others.

    Take care,
  • safari 2012/07/23 18:13:02 (edited)
    safari
    +6
    1 gun shots do not have to be lethal - most gun shots are wounds not lethal

    2 but hell yes - if someone attacks me or my loved ones and it is going to be me or the attacker then it is going to be them if I can at all possibly make that happen

    3 usually people who ask questions like this have never been in a seriously life threatening situation and honestly I hope you and or anyone else never is but if you are I hope you are prepared for it

    4 based on the logic of this question one might ask, do women who don't want children and have sex anyway premeditate killing their unborn child?
  • WannaBe... safari 2012/07/24 08:38:21
    WannaBeRSC the Contrarian SOB
    +2
    "Premeditated murder via planned abortion"... very interesting. Kudos to you, young Lady.
  • Kyra safari 2012/07/24 16:44:26
    Kyra
    YES... killing is taking another persons life. I don't support the killing of anyone, not even my enemies.

    Matthew5:38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

    War is the worst kind of abortion... we kill kids who already took there first breath and their mom, dad, siblings and the elderly they dearly love.
  • Red_Horse 2012/07/23 17:50:31 (edited)
  • Kyra Red_Horse 2012/07/28 00:52:45
    Kyra
    +1
    The words of the wicked lie in wait for blood, but the speech of the upright rescues them. Proverbs 12:6
  • Red_Horse Kyra 2012/07/28 02:03:03
  • Kyra Red_Horse 2012/07/28 02:12:45
    Kyra
    +1
    You ever read the end of the book.... when Jesus came and said...


    Matthew5:38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven.
  • Red_Horse Kyra 2012/07/28 02:38:13
  • Kyra Red_Horse 2012/07/28 02:47:15
    Kyra
    +1
    He told them to buy a sword so he could become a transgressor... as soon as Peter tried to use that sword Jesus told him....

    "Put away your sword," Jesus told him. "Those who use the sword will die by the sword. Matthew 26:52
  • Red_Horse Kyra 2012/07/28 02:51:59 (edited)
  • Kyra Red_Horse 2012/07/28 02:53:55
    Kyra
    +1
    He knows your heart. May God have mercy on you.
  • Red_Horse Kyra 2012/07/28 02:55:18
  • cj 2012/07/23 17:49:33
    cj
    +1
    YES. Actually just by carrying a gun, means you are prepared to use it.... and if it is with you, sooner or later you will likely use it.....
  • HOMBRE 2012/07/23 17:42:13
    HOMBRE
    +5
    Only if you gutted him and dressed him out like a deer after shooting him.

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