I don't understand something...
Jack's Pearl
2012/07/03 19:01:46
Please don't take huge offense at what I say here, even if you do hate it. LOL
I watched President Obama sign some bill or something last night that is supposed to guarantee equal pay for equal jobs. Great! BUT...my problem is I don't really see how they can say that employers are purposely paying woman less for the same job. How do they prove that? There are so many factors to consider for one. Like performance and leave, or maternity leave. Are all these taken into account when looking at the difference between men and women? I don't think they are.
Personally, I don't think the 33 cent difference they are finding is because employers are plotting to pay women less. For one, let's take ALL the women who do not have families and don't want one. They are happy with their careers. I doubt they loose in pay compared to a similar hard working and effective man.
Now let's take the fact that a woman who does have a family on average will take more leave then the average man. They are gone, they come back to the same pay and work up from there. Of course maybe the other comparable men have moved up in pay because of yearly raises and such. But if you weren't there you don't get that. I think this is a big reason why there is an average off 33 cents difference between men and women. I don't think studies look at all of this. And this is damaging to women who believe they actually are paid less just because they are a woman. I don't think it's true.
I think this thing is a farse. And what Obama signed is a farse. You can't make employers guarantee equal pay for equal work. Employers have a right to pay more effective employees better etc....What do you think?
I watched President Obama sign some bill or something last night that is supposed to guarantee equal pay for equal jobs. Great! BUT...my problem is I don't really see how they can say that employers are purposely paying woman less for the same job. How do they prove that? There are so many factors to consider for one. Like performance and leave, or maternity leave. Are all these taken into account when looking at the difference between men and women? I don't think they are.
Personally, I don't think the 33 cent difference they are finding is because employers are plotting to pay women less. For one, let's take ALL the women who do not have families and don't want one. They are happy with their careers. I doubt they loose in pay compared to a similar hard working and effective man.
Now let's take the fact that a woman who does have a family on average will take more leave then the average man. They are gone, they come back to the same pay and work up from there. Of course maybe the other comparable men have moved up in pay because of yearly raises and such. But if you weren't there you don't get that. I think this is a big reason why there is an average off 33 cents difference between men and women. I don't think studies look at all of this. And this is damaging to women who believe they actually are paid less just because they are a woman. I don't think it's true.
I think this thing is a farse. And what Obama signed is a farse. You can't make employers guarantee equal pay for equal work. Employers have a right to pay more effective employees better etc....What do you think?
Top Opinion
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Mark In Irvine 2012/07/03 19:12:13
+10there are studies that show that on average, women receive lower wages/salary for the same job men do ... i for one believe that women are devalued as workers in this country as compared to men doing the same job ... i think it may have something to do with the thought that men historically are the "sole breadwinners" in their families ...
I am asked to do things that my male-counterparts Such as, I notice one of the heavy hitters having a conversation with a counterpart while holding a piece of paper in his hand. After he was done chatting he asked ME to look up a phone number, look up a subway route, and check on a dinner reservation.
I think somewhere along the track women's rights became so much about abortion that our other rights took a back seat. I don't care what bill any President signs. I won't ever know what my male colleagues are getting in their paycheck.
Sadly, many men are now unemployed and women are primary breadwinners, yet still being underpaid.
Interestingly, a certain Mrs Thatcher voted against it at the time !
Seriously, how can it be so hard to give equal pay for equal work? If there is a genuine belief in equal pay for the sexes, what is the problem?
The rest of the Western world can manage it, why is America so behind on something so basic???
But I don't believe that is always the case.
When you adjust for the time taken for maternity leave, that's where the 33 cents comes from. If you don't adjust for maternity leave, that 33 cents increases to an even greater inequality of pay.
I don't see how it's possible that some people don't recognize the inequality of pay.
There are decades of data that repeatedly show this. You can come up with ways to justify it, but the outcome is the same; women are paid less than men.
The only time this might not be the case is in the lowest paid jobs; minimum wage zombie work. But even then, you would probably find that men are preferentially given a greater number of hours per pay period. I'm not saying that it is done for punitive reasons, just that it happens. It's one of those things that's just in everyone's brain. !!!WARNING BAD ANALOGY FOLLOWS!!!
Kind of like "Red" versus "Blue" in sporting events. In something like martial arts competitions, red wins a disproportionate amount of the time something on the order of greater than 60% of the time. No matter who is wearing red. It's not done intentionally, it's just something that is in the human brain.
Anyway, you could be exactly right too. I don't blame ANYONE for believing this to be the case and being angry over it. But I DO NOT like people being manipulated and angered for news worthy gain or political gain. That is not right. I hope that isn't the case here.
A possible reason to why it is that way may be that historically, meaning from pre-history, men have been the primary source of going out of the home and bringing stuff back. When men left the home to get stuff way back, it was usually at great personal peril. Women left home to get stuff too, but it was the "easy" stuff to get like fruits, nuts, and vegetables. So, to the greater risk went the greater reward. Obviously it's not that way anymore, but things that have been so much a part of human history are difficult to overcome with reason.
Of course, it could just be an institutionalized way to try and keep women at home and out of the workplace. That ship sailed a long time ago though, and I think reason is strong enough that people don't subconsciously think that way. At least not anymore.
There are things that our brains do that we don't know they do. I think this is just one of those cases.
There is hard evidence that when job X is done by a man the pay is Y and when it is done by a woman the pay is less than Y.
I'm looking at some numbers, I'm coming up with a 23% pay discrepancy for the United States. Meaning, a woman earns 77% of what a man doing the same job would earn.
This pay discrepancy varies by country, but in all countries the same thing is happening. Women are earning less than men for the same work.
Turning a blind eye to the facts available, the decades of data and just saying "are you sure" repeatedly isn't in any way refuting the plain facts of the matter. Women earn less than men for the same work.
It doesn't matter how you feel about it. It happens. It has been happening. It is a real thing.
The actual real world pay stubs of men and women in every country of the world every year since pay data has been recorded, however, does.
I've read studies which show that all things being equal, women still get the short end of the stick. Many women, myself included, must support themselves. I'm fortunate to work in a field where the playing field is much more level than in many others. I just hope that my daughter and my granddaughters have a level playing field as well.