How is abortion NOT murder?

Group Question :: BARBARA BOXER CLUB

How is abortion NOT murder?

by Just Me. Posted May 16, 2009 22:23:25

23 answers
Read all 47 comments
+4 / -1 raves

Why can I murder my own child, for no other reason but that I want to, but if you accidentally hit me with your car while I am pregnant and both me and the child die, you are charged with two counts of murder? \

If I can murder my own child and no one cares, why can't I murder you?

Results
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	Because children are not guaranteed a chance at life. 0% 0 votes
	Because I hate children. 0% 0 votes
	Abortion is homocide. 61% 14 votes
	Undecided 4% 1 vote
	All of the above 0% 0 votes
	None of the above 35% 8 votes

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Top Comment

+8 raves Gracie-NS-PC my ass! May 16, 2009 23:04:30

Answered: Abortion is homocide.
The taking of life is murder.
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Karlo October 08, 2009 18:00:59

Answered: None of the above
Abortions should be banned because we need the taxpayers, not for some moralistic dementia. Same people who are against abortions, Don't want any "aliens." especially if they come here needing medical treatment. So we believe aborting a child 3mos developped is murder, but stopping an adult from getting life saving medical treatment (not available in Morrocco, etc) is protecting our borders.. Hmmm
ProVega September 08, 2009 05:28:27

Answered: None of the above
It was the woman's choice to start it up and it's her choice to shut it down. Everybody else should stay out of it. The only reason religions calls abortion a sin is so they can win the population wars.
Naui September 06, 2009 18:12:21 (edited)

Answered: None of the above
It all comes down to when you think life begins. At conception, that point where sperm and egg combine to make one cell and then after nine months of growth and successful delivery breathe on their/its own? Or after the lungs develop enough for viability? Or where?

Is the prevention of conception murder? Is sex without conception murder because egg and sperm do not meet? Is menstruation murder because the egg is not fertilized? Is male masturbation murder because sperm are ejaculated but do not fertilize?

The number of abortions can be reduced and the number of unwanted pregnancies can be reduced through proper education and proper safe sex practices besides just abstinence.

Doctor Coathanger should be put out of practice. Outlawing or making abortion more difficult will just make for more backalley abortions performed by non doctors in less than sanitary conditions. And more women dying.

I have often thought that the folks who rail so much about abortion are really more ticked off that people are having sex.

And this seems like another trollish question here on SH designed to stir up emotion and opinion for one side or the other to just bash an answer they don't like.
PvK June 06, 2009 23:33:14

Answered: None of the above
This is a trollish question, but one that suggests to me that the answer should not be federally dictated, but left to independent decisions of states and communities unless and until the people come to a consensus. Until then, the popular extremes of both sides will be wasting much time and energy vilifying each other.

My personal answers to the trolling questions are about like this:
* Road _accidents_ should not result in any murder charges, and actually I don't think unborn babies should be considered murderable in any case.
* I think society gets to choose what the laws are. One way of treating the above situation is to define a point at which a new person is considered a person rather than an incomplete bunch of cells. Birth seems the very earliest point that makes sense to my personal cosmology, spirituality, and morality, and you're wasting your breath trying to convince me otherwise. I might actually even set it at the point the ranking medical authority in charge of the child declares it a person (could be a doctor, midwife, or even the mother).
* I think there are many problems in terms of human suffering and ambiguity in defining life as beginning and having legal personhood before birth. Moreover, human suffering tends to be about disappointed expectations and s...

This is a trollish question, but one that suggests to me that the answer should not be federally dictated, but left to independent decisions of states and communities unless and until the people come to a consensus. Until then, the popular extremes of both sides will be wasting much time and energy vilifying each other.

My personal answers to the trolling questions are about like this:
* Road _accidents_ should not result in any murder charges, and actually I don't think unborn babies should be considered murderable in any case.
* I think society gets to choose what the laws are. One way of treating the above situation is to define a point at which a new person is considered a person rather than an incomplete bunch of cells. Birth seems the very earliest point that makes sense to my personal cosmology, spirituality, and morality, and you're wasting your breath trying to convince me otherwise. I might actually even set it at the point the ranking medical authority in charge of the child declares it a person (could be a doctor, midwife, or even the mother).
* I think there are many problems in terms of human suffering and ambiguity in defining life as beginning and having legal personhood before birth. Moreover, human suffering tends to be about disappointed expectations and systems of ideas, and people who haven't left the womb have essentially no knowledge or expectations - the mother will experience far more pain and anguish than a child being killed even in the most awful and slow abortion procedure, and the mother is the one to trust with the decision.
* People who disagree and insist life begins at some early foetal stage, or that there's some Biblical argument or whatever, have a major cultural disagreement with me, and I'd like them to live in their own anti-abortion jurisdiction, while I will choose to live in a pro-choice jurisdiction.
* There's land enough on this continent for plenty of different jurisdictions to support different opinions and lifestyles without us trying to force others to conform to one morality.
(more)
Jon May 22, 2009 22:41:22

Answered: Undecided
It is, in a sense, murder, because it's taking away a life.
But on the other hand it's not, in that the life it's taking away isn't born, yet. Which is admittedly, confusing.
Just Me. to Jon May 22, 2009 23:51:31

Aren't you glad you were allowed to live? Aren't you glad you weren't murdered?
Jon to Just Me. June 01, 2009 02:48:56

Yes, I am.
+1 raves
Marty May 22, 2009 19:44:57

Answered: None of the above
The removal of a fetus is not murder unless your religion teaches that it is. Why, indeed, is the accidental death of a pregnant woman considered two deaths? Because the religious right has made it so. In America, your religion is not supposed to govern other citizens, and to insist that it should is traitorous.
Just Me. to Marty May 22, 2009 23:52:55

Define traitorous.
Lulu to Marty June 06, 2009 13:25:24

Yes, "they" made it so because it was to be their avenue to push the country to start to recognize the fetus as another human being and not a fetus, therefore to then abolish abortion. It didn't work and won't - - and.....any one who ends a pregnancy electively has to answer to the MOST important person already - herself! Nothing tops that. Religion is being used to try to 'control' people in the name of it - sadly! It really turns you off to religion - knowing it is used as a weapon.....

The right-to-life people are so consumed with trying to 'control' personal decisions of an individual they miss out on actually helping people - - their time would be better spent volunteering (soup kitchens; churches; senior centers; hospital; children centers, etc) and using their passion that way. You do not have the right to interfere in another's decision to make 'choices'. Simple as that - whether it's legal or not abortion will not stop, so that is why it needs to remain legal to keep women safe! It is NEVER an easy decision to make for the mother. No law in the land will make it easier.....
back at cha May 19, 2009 17:18:04

Answered: Abortion is homocide.
It is murder and the woman should be held accountable. I know there are people that also think it would be OK if the woman was raped. I don't think it would be ok then either. If a woman gets raped they can usually do a procedure that would take care of that. If she declines the procedure I feel that she should take the baby to term. As far as the rapist he should be castrated, and required to pay all hospital bills and child support. A few of these and that would take care of women being raped. That's what this country needs is tougher laws not more laws and just enforce the ones we have.
+1 raves
Ali ~ In My Heart I Trust ~ May 17, 2009 21:45:08

Answered: None of the above
Stacy, for you and others who are concerned about abortion I say get your concerns about unwanted pregnancies into the public discussion rather than the termination of those pregnancies.

I'm not talking about abstinence education - leave that for the parents and the religious institutions. But it's a well-documented fact that the rates of age at which teens have sexual intercourse, the number of partners, STDs and pregnancies are much lower where there is comprehensive sex education in the schools. That doesn't mean that a parent or religious institution can't emphasize the value of abstinence but to do so with an informed teen is far better than without (as shown by the abstinence plus program stats).

Reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies is certainly a worthy goal and has the added benefit of reducing the number of abortions.
+1 raves
Just Me. to Ali ~ I... May 17, 2009 23:06:32

Leading the horse to water and making him drink are two different things, and I choose to do whichever I believe represents my concerns. I think it is great that you want to do whatever you want to do, but interfering in the sex lives of others is not my business.

My concern is for the unborn child once it is already here.
+1 raves
j to Ali ~ I... May 19, 2009 04:20:38

good point.
+1 raves
cherokeefox May 17, 2009 18:28:08

Answered: Abortion is homocide.
if you kill a baby that is murder.abortion is murder.IF God did not want that baby to be born.It would not have been born
+3 raves
naneus May 17, 2009 16:58:43 (edited)

Answered: Abortion is homocide.
"I am your creator. You were in my care even BEFORE you were born." Isaiah 44:2
I heard my first child's heartbeat when he was only 8 weeks gestation old.
+2 raves
Sheila May 17, 2009 12:58:27

Answered: Abortion is homocide.
Murder plain and simple.
+5 raves
oopsbama,"extremerightwing ... May 17, 2009 04:30:22

Answered: Abortion is homocide.
Abortion is murder. Science has proven that life begins at conception, whether it be human, polar bear, cat, dog, or whatever. Now, the argument is about personhood, which makes absolutely no sense, because what could a human fetus be other than a person? Abortion is our national disgrace. The looney liberals have convinced a lot of people that abortion is a personal issue, when in reality it is a political issue.
+4 raves
Just Me. to oopsbam... May 17, 2009 04:44:20

Exactly!!
+5 raves
Right-winged/Left-handed May 17, 2009 04:09:30

Answered: Abortion is homocide.
For anyone who hasn't read it, here is a link to a great article and also the embedded video about Kathy Ireland's (model) conversion from "pro-choice" to "pro-life".

It is worth reading or watching if you haven't already.

The Newsmax link:
http://www.newsmax.com/inside...

The youtube video:
+4 raves
Just Me. to Right-w... May 17, 2009 04:13:56

Wow! Thank you, John.
+4 raves
Right-w... to Just Me. May 17, 2009 04:17:09

Very welcome.
+5 raves
Steve *... to Right-w... May 17, 2009 04:31:31

Wow thanks my points are made very well here. I always try to go with the science and the slavery similarity; "They are not really people" well they are.
+4 raves
Right-w... to Steve *... May 17, 2009 04:36:28

I couldn't agree more.

Take care.
+6 raves
Steve *VOTE-RIGHT* May 17, 2009 03:47:08 (edited)

Answered: Abortion is homocide.
All religious beliefs aside, once that little heart starts beating it is a living human being.
The heart is beating at the earliest detection of pregnancy. Abortion is murder.
+4 raves
Just Me. to Steve *... May 17, 2009 03:51:03

Awesome!! Precious.
+2 raves
Just Me. to Steve *... May 17, 2009 04:46:40

I LOVE the slavery and abortion similarities, Steve. I haven't seen that before. That gets right at the heart of the political issue!!!
+5 raves
TrueRedWhite&Blue May 17, 2009 02:36:43

Answered: Abortion is homocide.
Just selective, MURDER !
+5 raves
Fordy Freedom Fighter May 17, 2009 01:31:20

Answered: Abortion is homocide.
That is a great way of looking at it.
This country has it's values twisted around..
So sad...
God Bless all of you who fight to preserve the life of those who have no voice
poet4justice May 17, 2009 01:07:40

Answered: None of the above
LOOK I THINK AFTER HAVING A CHILD I STILL BELIEVE IT IS A MOTHER DECISSION AND I DONT THINK IT RIGHTFULLY FOR ME COMMENT HERE
+4 raves
Just Me. to poet4ju... May 17, 2009 01:10:12 (edited)

Thanks for your reply, but why are you yelling?
+1 raves
poet4ju... to Just Me. May 18, 2009 05:06:39

i'm not yeliing it was typo that i did not have time to correct them
+5 raves
Just Me. May 17, 2009 00:14:05

Answered: Abortion is homocide.
I think we should start calling voluntary abortion what it is: homocide. A voluntary abortion is pre-meditated murder.

An natural abortion, medically speaking, is a miscarriage. Miscarriage is not voluntary, and is usually because there is a problem with the process of pregnancy or death of the child in utero.

Our society needs to start making that distinction.
+6 raves
Davey May 17, 2009 00:06:48

Answered: Abortion is homocide.
Absolutely it is.
+6 raves
Just Me. to Davey May 17, 2009 01:10:38

Agree!
+6 raves
digitaldave May 16, 2009 23:35:00

Answered: Abortion is homocide.
Without question abortion is the most evil of all acts. And now we have a president who actually voted against the BAIP Act when he was a Senator. Disgusting and despicable.

EVERY congressman and woman who is pro-choice is pro death and must be voted OUT of office. California needs to start with you if you don't get a clue that you are a merchant of death supporting the likes of Margaret Sanger and Planned Parenthood.

So much for keeping my mouth shut, this is just too important to let go.
+5 raves
Just Me. to digital... May 17, 2009 01:11:56

This is the most tragic thing in our country. The liberals will tear their clothes for the children in Sudan, but get violent about a mother's right to choose to kill her baby.

It's unnatural.
+8 raves
Gracie-NS-PC my ass! May 16, 2009 23:04:30

Answered: Abortion is homocide.
The taking of life is murder.
+7 raves
Just Me. to Gracie-... May 17, 2009 01:12:02

Amen!
+6 raves
Jackie May 16, 2009 22:37:08

Answered: Abortion is homocide.
I believe it is murder. Unfortunately young woman, through the hard core feminists and pro-choice, are flooded with info that makes them believe it's not 'really' a baby, and it's their 'right' to choose to do whatever they want with their body. Well a baby IS NOT 'their' body, it's just growing inside their body. Some will have an abortion thinking it's not murder because so many believe in it, so they think it must not be wrong. When I was very young and naive, I 'thought' I was pro-choice, because it was a 'womens' issue. Man, was I wrong. I thank God I woke up.