Add a comment above
Top Opinion
-
TasselLady 2012/05/20 13:36:07Wait
+3God gives everyone a chance to accept him or reject him. If they choose not to listen to what the bible says and live it, then they are without excuse at the judgment. Christ said it all, "Blessed are those who believe but have not YET seen". That one verse tells me who God prizes the most. Those who have faith in him. Some people who end up in Hell are going to truly deserve it, especially if they refused to repent of their sin. God doesn't expect perfection from us since it's impossible for that to happen. But all we can do is rely on Christ's forgiveness and accepting him as our savior. If we do that then we can escape that fate.
But as someone who rejects the idea that any god in human history is real, and different faiths gleefully tell me about their version of hell how does on spend an equal portion of eternity getting tortured at all the various hells that are in scripture?
...only at the last moment does he come running back into the room, and for all those who've happened to have strayed while he was away, there will be no end to their torment and suffering.
Is God really napping? I don't believe He is. I've always found that God deals with me the way I want or expect Him to in the ultimate sense. But then I have always made it my first priority to seek His best plan for my life. I don't believe that's for everyone, and I can see how it can seem like God doesn't care that's for sure.
The thing that contributes the most to conflicting opinions about God in my mind...how God deals with people about children. I would say to anyone who is in turmoil over things that happen to children and young people...seek perfect peace, forgetting about God for awhile. Don't stop until you find that peace...peace in every area of your life, not just parts of it. Then see how the process has changed your beliefs if any.
Yeah, I'll always believe in judgement day and hell, but I can sure understand where the other viewpoints come from...
...the very concept of eternal damnation without redemption suggests otherwise.
Don't want to get all Biblical, but this I would like to add. It's from Luke, and when I read this it changed my life. I was forced to get God's side of the hell issue. It wasn't easy, but I had to get to the bottom of it. Here is the passage from Luke 16. The key verse is verse 8:
1 Jesus told his disciples: “There was a rich man whose manager was accused of wasting his possessions. 2 So he called him in and asked him, ‘What is this I hear about you? Give an account of your management, because you cannot be manager any longer.’
3 “The manager said to himself, ‘What shall I do now? My master is taking away my job. I’m not strong enough to dig, and I’m ashamed to beg— 4 I know what I’ll do so that, when I lose my job here, people will welcome me into their houses.’
5 “So he called in each one of his master’s debtors. He asked the first, ‘How much do you owe my master?’
6 “‘Eight hundred gallonsa of olive oil,’ he replied.
“The manager told him, ‘Take your bill, sit down quickly, and make it four hundred.’
7 “Then he asked the second, ‘And how much do you owe?’
“‘A thousand ...
Don't want to get all Biblical, but this I would like to add. It's from Luke, and when I read this it changed my life. I was forced to get God's side of the hell issue. It wasn't easy, but I had to get to the bottom of it. Here is the passage from Luke 16. The key verse is verse 8:
1 Jesus told his disciples: “There was a rich man whose manager was accused of wasting his possessions. 2 So he called him in and asked him, ‘What is this I hear about you? Give an account of your management, because you cannot be manager any longer.’
3 “The manager said to himself, ‘What shall I do now? My master is taking away my job. I’m not strong enough to dig, and I’m ashamed to beg— 4 I know what I’ll do so that, when I lose my job here, people will welcome me into their houses.’
5 “So he called in each one of his master’s debtors. He asked the first, ‘How much do you owe my master?’
6 “‘Eight hundred gallonsa of olive oil,’ he replied.
“The manager told him, ‘Take your bill, sit down quickly, and make it four hundred.’
7 “Then he asked the second, ‘And how much do you owe?’
“‘A thousand bushelsb of wheat,’ he replied.
“He told him, ‘Take your bill and make it eight hundred.’
8 “The master commended the dishonest manager because he had acted shrewdly. For the people of this world are more shrewd in dealing with their own kind than are the people of the light. 9 I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings.
What He meant was that the ones who will reject the truth for their lives understand themselves better than the ones who won't. The ones who will survive God's judgement day argue with each other and fuss and squabble over what's wrong with each other, while the devil's children just know they won't live God's way. They don't expect themselves to.
This changed me in that I knew I had to understand how there could be such a person that absolutely would not listen to God to save themselves...no matter what. That's the only kind of person that could deserve hell according to the Bible. When I got to the bottom of that issue, I knew I had found the absolute answer to the meaning and purpose of life. Since then, the little things have meant so much to me. I have always tried to do the right thing, but this was like finding out that it's not just not wrong to be for God...it's total empowerment for success and happiness.
OK, yeah I grew up in church my whole life. But that's more to me about special bonds, friendships, and moments than anything. Learning the truth about God? I had to want that for myself. God cares too much about people to force them to see it His way. That makes me respect the old man in the sky.
As for Jesus Christ, He just makes me laugh until I split. The God-man could not have done an evil thing. And the things He said just made perfect sense to say to those in attendance and in those times. I can't stop laughing at the Bible. It's just too far gone to explain how perfect it is.
But that's not eternal damnation means. Eternal damnation means eternal torment forever and ever.
...to me, this suggests a creator so limited in his powers to control his own creation that he resorts to the kind of brutality typical of tyrants whose only means on controlling the populace is through fear and terror.
I know you don't want to be controlled. Noone could like that. In God's mind eternity is long enough to celebrate having made the right choices in life for God to believe that it makes sense to allow individuals to make their own decisions, no matter what they decide.
Just a question. Would you say that as bad as things can be, they have tended to work out better so far than you believed they would?...OK not perfect maybe, but are they better than you expected they would be...I mean in the deepest part of yourself. For me, it's not perfect yet. That's how I would think of it...
...so eternal damnation is a sign that God loves you?
Still sounds more like a creator at war with his own creation, rather than a loving God secure in his own powers.
...sounds more like they're partners.
BTW, God didn't make people or the world. In a twisted sense evil did it really. Genesis is an account that made sense to the author(s) in the day. God blesses it to be taught, but, honestly, I believe God believes people and the creatures of nature made themselves.
I like to think of it sort of this way. If everything were perfect, would there be people believing in God and living their lives as they should? I think that's a pretty good question to answer, no matter what you believe about God or even whether you believe in Him at all..
I don't know what you're like, etc., but I am sure you are a good person and have no problems with God (I mean no worries about such a thing). But, as far as living forever is concerned from God's viewpoint it's more about the little decisions people make than the ones that show up on the news. Sometimes it's the big ones, but mostly the little ones. How do you respond when someone REALLY needs you, etc...
It's all about giving to me. Are you a giver or do you "lie in wait to shed innocent blood?"...
...so you're suggesting that he's really not an all-powerful God.
Funny thing. Do you think we could have this discussion 5 billion eons from now? I do. I am sure your way of thinking won't change much if at all, and I know mine won't. Also, I believe we'll be alive. This kind of thinking makes me bust with laughter at the things people argue about sometimes. What I laugh at the most is the idea of atheists arguing the idea that there is no God after 5 billion years of back and forth with people who believe in Him. I know it won't quit...just can't quit laughing about it...
OK, these are just beliefs. Guess God will have to step up with some proof at some point...
...but that suggests that he's not in control of his own creation, and he's not an all-powerful God.
No, I would say instead that the impossible happened. God loved all the angels and some betrayed Him.
I can see how someone would say, "then why should I waste my time even believing in Him?" That makes perfect sense to me, considering there can't be any reason to believe it won't happen again really. But I would say...
1. Consider the cross. A pretty powerful expression of God's love for mankind...
2. Whose job is it to protect you from evil anyway? If there is a God and if it could happen again, I'll just have to be ready for it...
Beyond that, I just choose to believe it won't.
I know it seems weird, but I could go on and on for a very long time. I have answered all the tough questions for myself when it comes to God. Honestly, it was my joy to do so. I really mean that...
“Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.”
- Matthew 24:34
“all these things,” which clearly implies the coming of Christ in glory described in verses 27-31 and 37-41.
In this entire passage, beginning in verse 4, Jesus clearly had in mind that His words would be passed onto succeeding generations. He was basically telling them a story that was meant to help others primarily...
As far as reading the Bible goes, I don't just occasionally read between the lines. I use the lines to tell me where to start. But I respect fully the lines too. It's all there for a reason as far as I am concerned, and it all makes sense on every level.
You know the easiest thing to have happen when reading the Bible...the easiest thing is to lose the context of what was happening at the specific time of each passage...Old Testament and New. It's easy to focus so hard on the words that one loses sight of the fact that Jesus Christ was addressing certain specific people from a specific place, with specific ways and cares. I get it, really I do, but the bottom line to me is that Jesus Christ is God. He deserves the title. So is God the Father, and the same holds true for Him.
I don't know what arcane means in the context of your post, but they aren't meanings to me. They are part of my soul and existence. This is a common experience amongst Christians...
As far as knowledge of God goes, I use the "lines" as a reference or starting point for understanding the Creator. Then I trust my relationship with Him and the words to hone my beliefs. Having a Bible for me isn't any different than reading the stars ...
As far as reading the Bible goes, I don't just occasionally read between the lines. I use the lines to tell me where to start. But I respect fully the lines too. It's all there for a reason as far as I am concerned, and it all makes sense on every level.
You know the easiest thing to have happen when reading the Bible...the easiest thing is to lose the context of what was happening at the specific time of each passage...Old Testament and New. It's easy to focus so hard on the words that one loses sight of the fact that Jesus Christ was addressing certain specific people from a specific place, with specific ways and cares. I get it, really I do, but the bottom line to me is that Jesus Christ is God. He deserves the title. So is God the Father, and the same holds true for Him.
I don't know what arcane means in the context of your post, but they aren't meanings to me. They are part of my soul and existence. This is a common experience amongst Christians...
As far as knowledge of God goes, I use the "lines" as a reference or starting point for understanding the Creator. Then I trust my relationship with Him and the words to hone my beliefs. Having a Bible for me isn't any different than reading the stars would have been for a Shaman or wise man. But I am definitely a Christian and a Fundamentalist Pentecostal one at that...
No debates with me. I have heard all the arguments and claims of every form of belief. None of it will ever spur me to a debate. It's just not for me...
One thing...if you want to understand my views, start with your own pure instinct for survival...then read the Bible as though you don't know if it can help you or not...
: )
God is alive to me. As alive as any other living thing. I can't prove it, but I don't feel guilty about that, and I don't have any interest in the ultimate sense in anything anyone else believes. There really isn't much in beliefs for success.
If God wants to be a part of your life as much as He wanted to be part of mine, He will prove His existence to you. If not you will just continue to believe whatever you believe.