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Do you think the Red Sea crossing actually happened

freespire 2012/06/24 09:04:49
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The Way of the Wilderness


Way of the Wilderness

The Bible records that God instructed Moses to lead the Children of Israel by
the Way of the Wilderness.


In Exodus 13:17-18, the Bible records, "Then it came to pass, when
Pharaoh had let the people go, that God did not lead them by way of the land of
the Philistines, although that was near; for God said, 'Lest perhaps the people
change their minds when they see war, and return to Egypt.' So God led the
people around by way of the wilderness of the Red Sea
".


"The way of the wilderness" was a frequently used highway passing
through a vast, open desert area, called the Wilderness of the Red Sea.




The Wadi Watir

If the Children of Israel had continued on this desert road, they would have
continued in a direction heading North East. However, God told Moses to turn off
the road, and travel in a new direction, passing though mountains that would
"close them in."


In Exodus 14:1-3 the Bible records, "Now the LORD spoke to Moses, saying:
"Speak to the children of Israel, that they turn and camp before Pi Hahiroth,
between Migdol and the sea, opposite Baal Zephon; you shall camp before it by
the sea. For Pharaoh will say of the children of Israel, 'They are bewildered by
the land; the wilderness has closed them in.
"



Nuweiba Beach

The Wadi Watir is a long deep canyon, about 40 miles long, which fits this
description perfectly, and explains Pharaoh’s reaction to their change in their
expected route North East to Etham.


After many miles the Wadi Watir opens out to a large beach area, on the
Western coast of the Gulf of Aquaba. This beach at Nuweiba along the Gulf of
Aquaba is the only beach that would have been large enough to accommodate the
estimated two million people and their flocks.

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  • freespire classic 2012/06/27 02:53:01
    freespire
    well if you can prove thes findings to be false then now is the time to prove your point as the facts have been placed on the table for validation by anyone who believe as you do.
  • classic freespire 2012/06/27 13:13:05
    classic
    What facts...Even the guys wife disputed the photos... and so have dozens upon dozens of other experts... All you do is read something and believe it.. This dude was supposed to have found other crap but has yet to produce any evidence other than his word. and a few obscure photos that prove nothing.... Sorry you strike out again...
  • freespire classic 2012/06/28 03:51:55
    freespire
    yes like she is any one to listen too just one woman without anything to show come on plz do better than that or is that really your only claim to the fame you seek?
  • Colin classic 2012/12/10 00:55:55
    Colin
    +7
    Could you please tell me where I could check the 'fact' about his wife's saying what you report?...
  • Colin classic 2012/12/10 00:53:46
    Colin
    +9
    Yes by Pihahioth directly opposite Baal Zephon - exacty where the remains are found and beyond them on the other side stands Sinai and other stuff eg carvinigs and monuments ...the evidence needs to be considered calmly
  • freespire classic 2012/06/26 05:43:22
    freespire
    oh yes and how much money did she recieve to say that after having left him?
  • Colin classic 2012/12/10 00:51:49
    Colin
    +6
    Of course 'all kinds of coral' is not obviously chariot wheels BUT when it it round and has spokes...
  • Bingo's Faddah 2012/06/24 12:59:53
    Undecided
    Bingo's Faddah
    +2
    Probably not. The Egyptians were great record keepers, even when events were not flattering. No mention of the exodus by them or anyone else. Besides, we all know how old Jews like to tell stories!

    egyptians record keepers events flattering mention exodus jews stories
  • freespire Bingo's... 2012/06/25 02:47:33
    freespire
    +1
    actually that is not true the Egyptians did record the exodus event the actual stone table is in the Brithish musseum
  • Bingo's... freespire 2012/06/25 13:39:34
    Bingo's Faddah
    Thanks for the poop. I did some preliminary checking but nothing yet. I'll do more research tomorrow.
  • freespire Bingo's... 2012/06/26 05:53:40
    freespire
    you can download the pps attachment here

    http://freespire.multiply.com...

    and see four yourself the stone tables held by the musseum
  • Bingo's... freespire 2012/06/26 14:48:27
    Bingo's Faddah
    I'm looking at the power point now. As I have memory problems, I'll comment as I see it.

    1. The tombs. They contain arches, some pointed. Pointed arches didn't exist back then.
    2. Underwater relics. Nope. If the veneers on the chariots are too fragile to move they wouldn't exist under the tidal flow. I can't buy this one.
    3. The coral encrusted wheel is very different from those claimed to be Pharaohs war chariot wheels. Too fancy, too many folks. On a claimed military expedition one must keep parameters constant with regard to claims.
    4. The columns of Solomon were put up as a dedication of an event that happened 500 years earlier. Such practices are common today too, so I can't consider this "proof". Evidence, yes but not applicable.
    5. Jethro's home in Al Bad. No way. Everyone knows that Jethro lived in Bug Tussel and then Beverly Hills.
    6. There are many Hebrew carvings, etc in rocks all over the region. Taking close ones near trade routes and associating them with events is easy.

    OK; real nice presentation and I did learn a few things. While I DO believe there was a slave escape from Egypt I cannot give credence to one of such biblical proportion. Go and listen to a bunch of old Jews talking and listen to them embellish stories! How many slaves?

    I'm really into the archaeology ...

    I'm looking at the power point now. As I have memory problems, I'll comment as I see it.

    1. The tombs. They contain arches, some pointed. Pointed arches didn't exist back then.
    2. Underwater relics. Nope. If the veneers on the chariots are too fragile to move they wouldn't exist under the tidal flow. I can't buy this one.
    3. The coral encrusted wheel is very different from those claimed to be Pharaohs war chariot wheels. Too fancy, too many folks. On a claimed military expedition one must keep parameters constant with regard to claims.
    4. The columns of Solomon were put up as a dedication of an event that happened 500 years earlier. Such practices are common today too, so I can't consider this "proof". Evidence, yes but not applicable.
    5. Jethro's home in Al Bad. No way. Everyone knows that Jethro lived in Bug Tussel and then Beverly Hills.
    6. There are many Hebrew carvings, etc in rocks all over the region. Taking close ones near trade routes and associating them with events is easy.

    OK; real nice presentation and I did learn a few things. While I DO believe there was a slave escape from Egypt I cannot give credence to one of such biblical proportion. Go and listen to a bunch of old Jews talking and listen to them embellish stories! How many slaves?

    I'm really into the archaeology thing, especially associating it with things that are taught. Truth is a very elusive commodity, and very rare. Thanks for the link! Here's a cookie for you:

    cookie
    (more)
  • freespire Bingo's... 2012/06/27 03:01:58
    freespire
    +1
    actaully the veneers would because we have other proof of sunk ships like the Tinanic which still remain under water for the same reason.

    Pharoahs army was made up of several legions including veterians so it is not hard to see how older and newer chariots would have been in use also one ranks would be noted by the type of weapons/ chariots in use too.

    I believe the number freed was 3 million which also raises the question how long the waters would need to be parted in order for such a multitude to cross of variing ages child to old n fragile as well as person belongins etc.
  • Bingo's... freespire 2012/06/27 13:55:32
    Bingo's Faddah
    Believe me, I get the miracle thing; seen a few. But my belief is that God created time and gave us all we need to get by. Available for occasional help, but otherwise just watching with some amusement. The problem is the "chosen people" thing. If humanity is just part of a very big experiment, that just doesn't make sense. Too much of what's in the bible is Tooth Fairy material.
    Comparing the Titanic steel to thin veneers in waters affected by tides and currents just won't do. Besides, in 3700 years there will be nothing left of the Titanic. It's crumbling after only 100.
    There certainly could have been a mix of chariot styles but I do consider it unlikely in an organized military in a country at the height of it's power.

    I'm quite sure something happened and slaves did get away. But the numbers and the story behind the exodus just doesn't cut it. Probably sounded great to the kids around the fire though.

    In other news, archaeology has pretty much proven the Joshua thing and the conquest of the Canaanites to be bunk. Looks like something else happened and two "peoples" merely blended, perhaps for mutual benefit. It happens all the time, even today.

    You and everyone else is certainly welcome to their beliefs, but really now. Some things just never happened.

    washington cherry tree
  • freespire Bingo's... 2012/06/28 04:22:51
    freespire
    remember you spoke about miracles could it be these were left for us in this condition just to make those face facts it happened for real?

    remeber the titanic also had much timber used though-out the ship as well
    and as you know timber under water does not always rot that quickly
  • Bingo's... freespire 2012/06/28 14:19:18
    Bingo's Faddah
    Cold fresh water preserves wood as does salt water at certain depths, as in certain areas of the Black Sea.

    I have a question about miracles if you please. How come we haven't seen any of biblical proportion in the last 2000 years? That's why I assign many of the bible stories to embellished campfire stories. After all, the Old Testament is pretty much a compilation of stories meant to scare the kids and keep them in line. The NT is quite different and has switched from obvious threats to implied threats and promises.

    Hopefully you're aware that I'm looking for different "takes" on certain things here and I'm not trying to knock you down. I have changed my mind on issues due to things I've read on this site. There's nothing more I like to say than "I never thought of that!".
  • freespire Bingo's... 2012/06/30 12:10:25
    freespire
    +1
    actually they are that is a fair question by all means and I am glad you asked, while I do not have the definitive answer I can say this, when the hebrews who became the islrealitse, kept leaving the land of milk and honey in order to be with the daughters of mohad ( not sure if that is spelt right ) and turn their back upon Jehovah, he then said I am ending my covernant with you and I will make a new one with the nations of all the world in which I will draw out for myself a chosen nations who will in the last days be sealed with my name upon them. since that coverant ended what have we seen the ransom paid by Jesus if I remember correctly the rise and fall of Babylon and several other nations like the Roman empire. we are currently looking at the state of times in which the world has become unstable food storages, men laying with men and women with women on grander scales, natural desarters ona grander scale, and many other signs written in the bible. I am not sure if that helps but it is something to consider. Now a little questioning for you to try and answer too :-)))

    1.how would Moses know this event was going to happen and the Sea would part at that excat moment under your claim here?

    2. how one man could pull of such a logistical nightmare unless the hand of some very high power assisted him?

    also
    3. why did Egypt hand over it's wealth to a group of slaves as it set them free?
  • Bingo's... freespire 2012/06/30 14:00:05
    Bingo's Faddah
    +1
    Women lying with women? Well, that's cool!!

    1. Tide tables.
    2. 2 by 2 in a long, long line.
    3. As an investment. Even then Jews were the very best at doubling your money!

    OK, enough answers designed to make you smile. If any crossing did occur for a group, tides and winds do produce predictable results. All they had to do was ask, and I'm sure a woman did that since men never ask for direction when on the road.

    He couldn't.

    I didn't know they did that.
  • freespire Bingo's... 2012/07/01 04:53:43
    freespire
    +1
    interesting but weren't the women of that time sub-servant tot heir husbands and family fathers?

    which makes me wonder even more who they would have been able to ask for directions from in the desert as well hmmmm time to think a little more
  • Bingo's... freespire 2012/07/01 13:25:57
    Bingo's Faddah
    +1
    Unfortunately, women are second class citizens or outright property in much of the world. That's one reason I'm against "legal" marriage.
  • freespire Bingo's... 2012/07/03 05:52:34
    freespire
    yes it has been for thousands of year the standard way of life no debate on that which also makes it the same reason a woman could not have been able to give the men directs at that point of time.

    so again I would have to ask those questions once more

    1.how would Moses know this event was going to happen and the Sea would part at that excat moment under your claim here?

    2. how one man could pull of such a logistical nightmare unless the hand of some very high power assisted him?

    also
    3. why did Egypt hand over it's wealth to a group of slaves as it set them free?

    points to consider b4 you answer

    A. the level of technology in that era.
    B. the way in which warfae was carried out
    c. what it meant for a tribe to move from one ground to another little lone a nation of some sizable proportion.
    d. the climate conditions in which botht the era and locaton would have been like.
    E. the condition of the nation upon release from their enslavery.would they have been well rested and feed?.... what about the health level?
  • Bingo's... freespire 2012/07/04 13:01:02
    Bingo's Faddah
    Chances are that what ever did happen back then was grossly embellished. If a dozen or so people were really involved, logistics would be simplified and the story far more believable. So as to the bible story, it simply didn't happen.
  • freespire Bingo's... 2012/07/05 01:21:27
    freespire
    +1
    now if it was only a dozzen or so as you say.

    why would the entire Egyptian army chase after them?
  • Bingo's... freespire 2012/07/05 14:23:30
    Bingo's Faddah
    +1
    I really doubt the entire event happened as chronicled. Looks like we beat this one to death and I learned quite a bit. For that, I thank you as that's why I'm here. And, of course, to monkey around. I look forward to meeting you on another thread. Be well.
  • freespire Bingo's... 2012/07/07 01:59:09
    freespire
    yes always a pleasure to share conversations with one who is seeking to find truth behind what we have been told for so long without any real understanding of the reasons why peace and good health come to you also
  • Colin freespire 2012/12/10 01:02:07
    Colin
    The covenant YHWH made is an everlasting one with Abraham...If YHWH can change his mind with Abraham them we are all doomed!
  • classic Bingo's... 2012/06/28 12:39:43
    classic
    dont confuse; them with facts, they still deny,, they have been brainswashed extremely well, and cannot see out side of that fairy tale book..
  • Bingo's... classic 2012/06/28 14:23:50
    Bingo's Faddah
    +1
    You might try a different tack as you seem to have a slightly closed mind. Things in the bible did happen, just not as portrayed. Not all things of course and Christians do have an "out" if they don't comply with all the rules. They "sin", and they're expected to.
  • classic Bingo's... 2012/12/10 01:47:55
    classic
    Yes 5% of the bible may be fact, there has to be to make the other 95% BS plausable.... The wizard of OZ had factual names and places,, how much of that was true/.?
  • freespire classic 2012/06/30 12:13:24
    freespire
    ok you have been trying to make a point now lets see you prove this one for a change I am offering you a deal to see just how well your allegations stack up please be a human about it and if nothing else humour me.

    1.how would Moses know this event was going to happen and the Sea would part at that excat moment under your claim here?

    2. how one man could pull of such a logistical nightmare unless the hand of some very high power assisted him?

    also
    3. why did Egypt hand over it's wealth to a group of slaves as it set them free?
  • classic freespire 2012/12/10 01:49:10
    classic
    Can you prove anything in the bible actually happened.. maybe 5% is factual/.// prove that this Moses even existed,, out side of biblical text.. Prove this Jesus existed outside of biblical text...
  • Colin Bingo's... 2012/12/10 00:59:00
    Colin
    +9
    Hey I like this approach - it suggests an ordered mind...I will come back to this post
  • classic freespire 2012/06/26 13:46:35
    classic
    BS
  • freespire classic 2012/06/27 02:53:33
    freespire
    agains I say prove yourself correct
  • classic freespire 2012/06/27 13:14:33
    classic
    You are the one making outlandish claims.. you prove them, and not with some religious biased report.....
  • freespire classic 2012/06/28 04:26:27
    freespire
    hey I gave you the proof and so have many others here if you can discredit them all then do it we are all waiting for your evidence
  • classic freespire 2012/06/28 12:41:50 (edited)
    classic
    You havent provided a speck of evidence of what you claim...

    You are boring... You have no proof or your claims.. I have posted expert after expert on every thing you claim and proved it false... Get over it You lost...LMAO
  • freespire classic 2012/06/30 12:16:45
    freespire
    it amazes me just how much you love to preach sos I have something I and other reading your sermon here need answered brother if you are able too thank you

    1.how would Moses know this event was going to happen and the Sea would part at that excat moment under your claim here?

    2. how one man could pull of such a logistical nightmare unless the hand of some very high power assisted him?

    also
    3. why did Egypt hand over it's wealth to a group of slaves as it set them free?
  • Colin Bingo's... 2012/12/10 00:56:48
    Colin
    +8
    You cannot be serious!
  • kir 2012/06/24 12:53:31
    Undecided
    kir
    A certain region could have been exceptionally low allowing then to cross without divine help.

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