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Do you believe we are all sinners?

Sister Jean 2012/03/28 15:25:51
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  • Whizzy 2012/03/28 15:43:42
    yes
    Whizzy
    +4
    I know I have "sinned", called human nature.
    "everybody" has at a time stole a cookie, told a little lie or ran trough a red light.
    All are "sins" in their own respect

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  • merlinskiss 2012/04/27 15:05:58
    no
    merlinskiss
    +1
    But I believe there are very evil people out there and evil is the key.
  • Red_Horse 2012/04/27 03:23:53
  • William Day 2012/04/27 02:46:55
    no
    William Day
    I don't believe in this ridiculous notion of sin so by extension I cannot believe that people CAN sin.
  • Nam Era Vet #1 DNA TLC 2012/04/27 02:06:21
    yes
    Nam Era Vet #1 DNA TLC
  • Earthly Resident 2012/04/26 23:49:22
    None of the above
    Earthly Resident
    +2
    if i even believed there was such a thing as "sin", then i would certainly say that every last person on the planet is a sinner somehow
  • Red_Horse Earthly... 2012/04/27 04:42:49
  • Lance L Red_Horse 2012/07/30 13:51:10
    Lance L
    +4
    Red Horse, by your statement above, if a lion brings down a gazelle, that is sin? I don't think that position is defensible, even from a Biblical standpoint. I don't think the Bible allows for animals to have souls, to begin with, and sin -- at least my understanding of it -- requires both a soul and some kind of external judgment. I could well be wrong on that, I'm not exactly a Bible expert, but looking at your statement higher up, "They don't realize that even if God was just a myth, they still do evil....everyone does evil." I think it's a matter of semantics. If I don't believe in God, or souls, then I would have a much harder time quantifying what constitutes "evil" or "sin" since those are basically Judeo-Christian constructs. So I respectfully reject your proposition that if God is a myth, evil still exists. Without God, there is no "evil," only human law. And laws can be subjectively "evil" in themselves (seriously, history is full of them. Just look at the slavery laws of the South prior to the Civil War.). Again, though, without a Judeo-Christian yardstick, who gets to decide what is "evil" and what is merely self-interested? And therefore what is sin? So, I think the point the atheists are making here is, if you believe in God -- and particularly if you...
    Red Horse, by your statement above, if a lion brings down a gazelle, that is sin? I don't think that position is defensible, even from a Biblical standpoint. I don't think the Bible allows for animals to have souls, to begin with, and sin -- at least my understanding of it -- requires both a soul and some kind of external judgment. I could well be wrong on that, I'm not exactly a Bible expert, but looking at your statement higher up, "They don't realize that even if God was just a myth, they still do evil....everyone does evil." I think it's a matter of semantics. If I don't believe in God, or souls, then I would have a much harder time quantifying what constitutes "evil" or "sin" since those are basically Judeo-Christian constructs. So I respectfully reject your proposition that if God is a myth, evil still exists. Without God, there is no "evil," only human law. And laws can be subjectively "evil" in themselves (seriously, history is full of them. Just look at the slavery laws of the South prior to the Civil War.). Again, though, without a Judeo-Christian yardstick, who gets to decide what is "evil" and what is merely self-interested? And therefore what is sin? So, I think the point the atheists are making here is, if you believe in God -- and particularly if you are Catholic -- you are told to believe that we are all sinners, so that's your obvious answer to this question. However, if you don't believe in a God, then the concept of "sin" ceases to exist in any concrete form, leaving it to a sort of kangaroo court to decide "right" from "wrong". In the best case scenario, this would be based on what is good for society at large (Spock's "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few") but in most cases it's based on the opinion of whoever is in power at the time and has little to do with the social good. Even homicide is not clear cut without a Christian moral compass. In 1800s America, plenty of men were deemed to "need killin'" and it was not considered sin to bring them in "dead or alive" -- especially since "alive" was just long enough to publicly hang them. Also, killing in self-defense, in passion, in vigilante action (as above), or the government sanctioned killing of combat is often not considered "sin." My point is, if you believe in God, then yes you believe we are all sinners and the only way to heaven is through Jesus, etc. If you are not religious, you don't believe that and therefore you don't believe in "sin" as we can assume it is defined in this topic.
    (more)
  • Red_Horse Lance L 2012/08/02 01:24:17 (edited)
  • Boris Badinov 2012/04/26 23:45:43
    yes
    Boris Badinov
    +2
    There is a God and each one of us have broken his law.
  • Sister ... Boris B... 2012/04/26 23:46:20
  • Corey 2012/04/03 17:45:59
    yes
    Corey
    +2
    YES. Everyone sins. Whether you are educated on the subject of the Bible and sin, you do. Man was made without it, and Satan tempted man with lust, on some accounts. At that time, sin was BORN into the world. The word says on our best days we are but filthy rags to God. We will NEVER be perfect. Here's scriptural text.

    Isaiah 64:6 - "For we have all become like one who is unclean [ceremonially, like a leper], and all our righteousness (our best deeds of rightness and justice) is like filthy rags or a polluted garment; we all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away [far from God's favor, hurrying us toward destruction]."
  • Rachelle slusher 2012/04/01 04:21:08
    yes
    Rachelle slusher
    +1
    Ya everyone does it.
  • Andy 2012/03/31 17:14:48
    yes
    Andy
    +1
    We are all sinners... and without Jesus Christ our sin would condemn us.
  • Tyler 2012/03/30 17:44:21
    yes
    Tyler
    +2
    We all sinners, hence why Jesus died on the cross for all of us. But you have to accept him as your saviour before you can be in the lamb's book of life
  • Rachell... Tyler 2012/04/03 00:48:37
    Rachelle slusher
    +1
    For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16
    I know that verse by heart.
  • jeane 2012/03/30 00:51:10
    yes
    jeane
    +2
    << Romans 3:23 >>
    for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

    This obviously does not mean infants.
  • Corey jeane 2012/04/03 17:47:18
    Corey
    Infants are born in to the world with sin, if you scroll up I mention that we are born in to sin.
    But in another place in the bible, it says that there is a general "age of accountability." Do you know what that is?
  • jeane Corey 2012/04/03 23:27:02 (edited)
    jeane
    +1
    I know of no passage that specifically speaks of an age of accountability even in an abstract way. However, as with other doctrines like the trinity that are not specifically spelled out, many theologians and Bible students have come to the conclusion that there is an age of accountability, though it undoubtedly varies with individuals

    God commanded those who were twenty years old and above to pay a ransom for their souls because anyone nineteen years and below were consider by God to be children and were under the protective head of the household. If he was only nineteen he was not old enough to pay a ransom for his own soul, he was still covered under his father’s ransom. (Ex. 30)

    Proverbs 20:11 King James Bible
    Even a child is known by his doings, whether his work be pure, and whether it be right.
  • Corey jeane 2012/04/11 17:31:53
    Corey
    " many theologians and Bible students have come to the conclusion that there is an age of accountability, though it undoubtedly varies with individuals"

    That is, in my belief, (which i perceive as fact,) correct! The age is really not a direct limitation or whatever so follow me............

    lets say, a Godly couple has a kid, and by the age of 5, that child can tell you for a fact who Jesus is in his life and tell you scripture from the Bible he learned it from, he has passed the age of accountability. Which means, he understands the concept of Christianity and accepts it and willingly chose (and is choosing every day) to live his life the way his God wants him to.

    on the other hand, a similar couple has a kid and is born with autism. It may take him muuch longer to grasp the concept and understand it with depth. He may be 9 years of age before he understands his religion. If thats the case..up to that point he is under the age of accountability. He cannot be held accountable for his un-Godly actions because he doesnt perceive his actions, etc, in the Godly mindset a Christian has.

    Did that help you understand?
  • jeane Corey 2012/04/11 23:30:50
    jeane
    +1
    I understand that God has it all in hand and I don't need to worry about it.
  • Corey jeane 2012/04/13 19:15:50
    Corey
    +1
    alrighty then. thank you for your time
  • tredzwater 2012/03/29 13:37:27
    no
    tredzwater
    Sin is a religious concept. It is defined as an offense against one flavor of god or other. Since I have seen no evidence that any god exists outside of fantasy, I consider "sin" as a construct of that fantasy. Therefore, I cannot sin.

    What I can do is behave exactly as every primate behaves. I can harm my fellow humans. I can harm other animals. I can harm myself by doing what I know isn't good for me.

    My ethos doesn't allow me to do the first two but, sadly, I err with the last. I find it impossible to resist a hot fudge sundae when it's waved under my nose.
  • Just Another Girl (5) 2012/03/29 07:24:30
    yes
    Just Another Girl (5)
    +1
    While I don't actually believe in Sin, for the purpose of this question I answered Yes, simply because NO ONE and I mean NO ONE is perfect. Everyone commits a sin or two within their lifetime
  • Ben 2012/03/28 23:20:48
    yes
    Ben
    But god doesn't care. He just laughing his ass off up there about us.
  • Corey Ben 2012/04/13 19:18:15
    Corey
    You DO know that God cannot lie...correct?


    http://www.walkingintruth.org...
    ^^^
    Check that out.. just a little example of how many times that statement is mentions
  • wildcat 2012/03/28 23:16:15
    yes
    wildcat
    +2
    of course, we have all fallen short in the eyes of God. That is why Jesus suffered for us.
  • tredzwater wildcat 2012/03/30 15:45:51
    tredzwater
    Why would you want to worship a god who tortured and killed his own illegitimate son for the sins of beings who were sinless until that god created sin? I wouldn't.

    Would you torture and kill your own child because your neighbor knocked over a liquor store?
  • wildcat tredzwater 2012/03/31 01:15:59
    wildcat
    +2
    Jesus is only one part of the trinity, he was God incarnate. So God in essence gave himself, in human form, up for our sins.
  • Sister ... wildcat 2012/03/31 01:18:38
  • wildcat Sister ... 2012/03/31 01:20:30
  • tredzwater Sister ... 2012/03/31 03:19:21
    tredzwater
    +1
    Sister, the concept of a half-human, half-divine son of a god and a human woman is extremely pagan...in keeping with Paul having grown up in the most pagan city in the Near East and his having had a huge argument with those who actually "knew" Jesus when he accepted Gentiles. Tarsus was the most Hellenized city in the Middle Eastern world and the Greeks were really big on god/men. Herakles, Theseus, Perseus, Achilles...to name just a few, all had human mothers and divine fathers. And, all were claimed to be miracle workers.

    Redemption was not a new concept, either. Mithra, a god who antedated Christianity, sacrificed himself for humankind. He was also said to have been born on 25 December, of a virgin and to have been visited by shepherds. Mithra, in modern scholarship, is seen as the god in charge of the precession of the equinoxes and was called Sol Invictus...the Unconquered Sun. Modern scholars have seen references to Mithra as far back as Plato (429-347 BCE), although formal reference to the cult, itself, came later, after the Romans took it up. The parallels between Mithra and Christ are so many and so exact that Tertullian wrote that Mithraism was the work of Satan; given that Satan knew of Christ's eventual birth and death, he deliberately created a religion to mimic...

    Sister, the concept of a half-human, half-divine son of a god and a human woman is extremely pagan...in keeping with Paul having grown up in the most pagan city in the Near East and his having had a huge argument with those who actually "knew" Jesus when he accepted Gentiles. Tarsus was the most Hellenized city in the Middle Eastern world and the Greeks were really big on god/men. Herakles, Theseus, Perseus, Achilles...to name just a few, all had human mothers and divine fathers. And, all were claimed to be miracle workers.

    Redemption was not a new concept, either. Mithra, a god who antedated Christianity, sacrificed himself for humankind. He was also said to have been born on 25 December, of a virgin and to have been visited by shepherds. Mithra, in modern scholarship, is seen as the god in charge of the precession of the equinoxes and was called Sol Invictus...the Unconquered Sun. Modern scholars have seen references to Mithra as far back as Plato (429-347 BCE), although formal reference to the cult, itself, came later, after the Romans took it up. The parallels between Mithra and Christ are so many and so exact that Tertullian wrote that Mithraism was the work of Satan; given that Satan knew of Christ's eventual birth and death, he deliberately created a religion to mimic that AHEAD OF TIME, in order to keep people from believing in Jesus. I, personally, consider that to be miserable scholarship, on Tertullian's part, but really good weaselling. The concept of a redeemer was also present, though not required, among pre-Christian Gnostic groups.

    The problem arises through using the Jewish Yahweh as the putative father of the putative Jesus. The Old Testament displays a primitive war god with none of the attributes currently assigned to Jesus. Yet, if your graphic is accurate, Jesus was involved in, and approved of all the heinous crimes attributed to Yahweh in the Tanakh. Melding a monotheistic religion with a pagan culture, as Paul had to do the moment he started allowing Gentiles into his sect, has produced a god who could not possibly be what he is claimed to be.
    (more)
  • Sister ... tredzwater 2012/03/31 16:24:54
  • tredzwater Sister ... 2012/03/31 16:54:25
    tredzwater
    +1
    I do get wordy, don't I? But, if you post a graphic as fact, it needs to be answered factually.

    Say it is your belief and I won't even answer. Everyone is entitled to believe whatever comforts them.
  • Sister ... tredzwater 2012/03/31 17:09:15
    Sister Jean
    most sodahead ,like me,do not read long comments
  • tredzwater Sister ... 2012/03/31 17:14:59
    tredzwater
    +1
    Do you have evidence of that?

    I, for one, prefer to read long comments that show the responder is considering the topic than one-worders that do not. I think that the one-worders have other agendae, begging your pardon, Sister.

    After all, the engine that drives SH is discussion.
  • tredzwater wildcat 2012/03/31 02:45:22
    tredzwater
    Why? He could have avoided all of that nasty weekend if he had not created evil in the first place.

    I know that if I hated something, I wouldn't go out of my way to create it. That's just stupid, isn't it?
  • wildcat tredzwater 2012/03/31 02:53:46
    wildcat
    +2
    No, it is called free will.
  • tredzwater wildcat 2012/03/31 11:16:10
    tredzwater
    +1
    The concept of "free will" was invented in a lame attempt to explain theodicy. It was used to make humans feel guilty and to keep them coming (and paying) to the priests for protection from everlasting horror. It didn't work. Your god actually "bragged" about creating evil. Without that creation, there would be no "sin", no hell and no need to invent a demigod tortured to death in the name of "love".

    Christianity is a blood cult, a death cult and its followers think themselves blessed if a primitive prehistoric war god doesn't burn them alive for all eternity...for something he invented in the first place.

    "God of Love" indeed.
  • Sister ... tredzwater 2012/03/31 16:25:50
  • tredzwater Sister ... 2012/03/31 16:57:12

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