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Do you believe that Prayer helps?

BrianD3 2012/06/14 18:26:08
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  • classic tredzwater 2012/06/15 16:14:08
    classic
    +3
    I work with various Youth groups within this area also.. I teach shotgun shooting sports to young people.. There is no need for a diety to teach these people morals, goals and how to live a good life... The shotgun sports give them, confidence, goals, and a purpose.... We never mention religion...
  • tredzwater classic 2012/06/15 16:27:13
  • PUNX! 2012/06/15 10:14:35
    Yes
    PUNX!
    +4
    Yep. If it didn't work then I would be rotting in hell right now.
  • D D 2012/06/15 10:13:54
    Yes
    D D
  • Darth Vader.BN-0 2012/06/15 08:28:22
    Yes
    Darth Vader.BN-0
    +3
    I think people think about prayer in the wrong way.
  • lyle Darth V... 2012/06/15 13:16:18
    lyle
    +3
    ask not what God can do for you....but what u can do for God
  • angelbaby 2012/06/15 07:57:28
    Yes
    angelbaby
    +3
    It's always comforted me..
  • Luv♥Luv angelbaby 2012/06/16 13:39:39 (edited)
    Luv♥Luv
    +1
    Hi angelbaby, prayer has comforted me many times. Have a great weekend.
  • angelbaby Luv♥Luv 2012/06/16 13:52:41
    angelbaby
    +1
    You too :)
  • mrdog 2012/06/15 07:49:32
    Yes
    mrdog
    +4
    Absolutey....bark
  • Luv♥Luv mrdog 2012/06/16 13:40:08 (edited)
    Luv♥Luv
    +1
    Love how you say bark on all your replies.
  • mrdog Luv♥Luv 2012/06/16 15:08:56
    mrdog
    +1
    Ditto.... polska has huge match today in Wroclaw...must win... polska vs czech rep...

    17 million in polska will be watching....bark 8;45pm 2;45pm east coast time ESPN...

    GO POLSKA!! baark
  • Luv♥Luv mrdog 2012/06/16 15:35:21
    Luv♥Luv
    Don't have cable...ESPN :-)
  • mrdog Luv♥Luv 2012/06/17 08:47:11
    mrdog
    +1
    Doesn't matter polska lay an egg...missed shot after shot...as did russia
    both lose....bye bye...bark
  • GinnyWeasley_13 2012/06/15 06:27:04
    Yes
    GinnyWeasley_13
    +4
    yes, yes and yes.
  • bluelady 2012/06/15 05:10:29
    Yes
    bluelady
    +4
    no doubt about it... have seen the wonder of it happen
  • Omni 2012/06/15 05:09:49 (edited)
    No
    Omni
    +1
    How arrogant you must be to believe an omnipotent, all-powerful being chooses you over the millions of starving, sickly children in Africa and Asia...
  • Darth V... Omni 2012/06/15 08:26:59
    Darth Vader.BN-0
    +4
    That's why you're not suppose to pray for what you don't need.
  • Omni Darth V... 2012/06/15 12:21:25
    Omni
    +1
    I... I don't think you get the logic. So what YOU need is more important than what THEY need?
  • Darth V... Omni 2012/06/15 12:37:46 (edited)
    Darth Vader.BN-0
    +3
    I didn't say that. Im saying most people here shouldn't be asking for themselves, but for others. In my family, we pray that for everyone and my mom only asks that he keep her little ones safe.
  • tredzwater Darth V... 2012/06/16 22:56:51
    tredzwater
    +2
    What about the little ones that aren't kept safe? What about the hundreds of thousands of children killed by starvation, war, earthquakes, tsunami, fire, tornados and drive-by shootings? Did NONE of them have anyone praying to keep them safe? What about your prayers for "everyone"?

    Why didn't they work?
  • Darth V... tredzwater 2012/06/17 07:10:50
    Darth Vader.BN-0
    +1
    You can't help if they aren't kept safe. You do realize that you basically ask that no one dies, RIGHT?
  • tredzwater Darth V... 2012/06/17 11:21:38
    tredzwater
    +2
    No. I'm not the one praying that "everyone" be kept safe. I'm entirely too pragmatic for that.

    What I'm saying is that no one can claim that "prayer works" unless, and until, they can provide neutral, scholarly evidence of that claim. Saying, "I prayed for my grammy to get healed of cancer and God answered my prayer." doesn't work unless you can prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that your grandmother's cancer went away purely because of divine intervention. Just saying something is so doesn't make it so.

    If prayer works, why doesn't "God" heal amputees?
  • Darth V... tredzwater 2012/06/19 07:24:27
    Darth Vader.BN-0
    That doesn't mean that I pray that impposible things happen to them. I agree with that because it simply doesn't. It is said in the bible that it doesn't always work. Who says i'm trying to "prove" anything to you? I don't waste my time with it. Think what you will.
  • tredzwater Darth V... 2012/06/20 16:59:54
    tredzwater
    Keyona, you simply cannot make a statement-of-fact unless you can provide evidence that what you say is reality. That's just how things are supposed to work.

    If you say, "Snow is hot." or "The Easter Bunny exists." or "Male humans give birth to babies." you will need to provide neutral, scholarly evidence that those claims are real. Otherwise, you are either lying or deluded.

    So, when you say, "Prayer works." as if it is a statement-of-fact, you shouldn't be surprised is someone asks you to show the validity of your claim. Just as you would be expected to provide neutral, scholarly evidence that a human male has given birth to a baby, you must provide neutral, scholarly evidence that prayer produces a concrete result.

    Too many people on the Net make claims about their religion as if those claims are beyond dispute. They say, "God exists." and "Jesus is the son of God." and "Prayer works." and they have not the slightest bit of evidence for any of those claims.

    I wouldn't care, at all, if they want to say, "I believe...". People are entitled to believe whatever makes them happy, even if I consider it arrant nonsense. But, they are NOT entitled to state those beliefs as if they were fact and they are NOT entitled to tell me that I ought to believe as they do.

    Isaac Asimov once sa...

    Keyona, you simply cannot make a statement-of-fact unless you can provide evidence that what you say is reality. That's just how things are supposed to work.

    If you say, "Snow is hot." or "The Easter Bunny exists." or "Male humans give birth to babies." you will need to provide neutral, scholarly evidence that those claims are real. Otherwise, you are either lying or deluded.

    So, when you say, "Prayer works." as if it is a statement-of-fact, you shouldn't be surprised is someone asks you to show the validity of your claim. Just as you would be expected to provide neutral, scholarly evidence that a human male has given birth to a baby, you must provide neutral, scholarly evidence that prayer produces a concrete result.

    Too many people on the Net make claims about their religion as if those claims are beyond dispute. They say, "God exists." and "Jesus is the son of God." and "Prayer works." and they have not the slightest bit of evidence for any of those claims.

    I wouldn't care, at all, if they want to say, "I believe...". People are entitled to believe whatever makes them happy, even if I consider it arrant nonsense. But, they are NOT entitled to state those beliefs as if they were fact and they are NOT entitled to tell me that I ought to believe as they do.

    Isaac Asimov once said that the earth was an oblate spheroid with minor irregularities and that no matter how many people believed it to be flat, the earth *remained* an oblate spheroid with minor irregularities.

    Prayer is just a blankie for adults and I do have neutral, scholarly evidence for that.
    (more)
  • Darth V... tredzwater 2012/06/20 23:51:30
    Darth Vader.BN-0
    I did not state it as a fact, firstly. You seem to have some things that you need to vent. Try doing so to someone that has actually stated that as a fact. If I did want to state it as a fact, could you really make me change what I have said? Who are you to tell me what I am entitled to? You speack of evidence. What evidence do you have to say that it is incorrect? The usual; That nothing came from nothing that came from nothing? Please, inform me on how you have evidence that prayer is a blancket for adults?
  • tredzwater Darth V... 2012/06/21 00:45:16
    tredzwater
    Because neutral, scholarly studies have shown that the result of prayer is no greater than chance.

    John Templeton Foundation 10-year study : http://www.nytimes.com/2006/0...

    Medical Journal of Australia: "One common criticism of prayer research is that prayer has become a popular therapeutic method for which there is no known plausible mechanism."

    An early study (1872) http://www.abelard.org/galton...

    Columbia University study flawed and fraudulent: http://www.csicop.org/si/show...

    Follow-up article on Columbia University: http://www.csicop.org/si/show...

    But, the foundational point is that it is up to the person making a statement, any statement, to demonstrate that statement to be reality. If I say, "Human males give birth to live young." then I'm the person who must come up with at least one human male who carried a fetus to term and then gave birth to it. It isn't up to my listeners to prove that I am wrong. My expecting them to prove me wrong is a logical fallacy and a sign of an inability to think on an adult level.

    I consider prayer to be a "blankie for adults", a placebo, but I'm certainly open to being shown that I'm wrong. It is for those who claim that "prayer works" to demonstrate the reality of that statement.

    I just sit here and say..."show me".
    Because neutral, scholarly studies have shown that the result of prayer is no greater than chance.

    John Templeton Foundation 10-year study : http://www.nytimes.com/2006/0...

    Medical Journal of Australia: "One common criticism of prayer research is that prayer has become a popular therapeutic method for which there is no known plausible mechanism."

    An early study (1872) http://www.abelard.org/galton...

    Columbia University study flawed and fraudulent: http://www.csicop.org/si/show...

    Follow-up article on Columbia University: http://www.csicop.org/si/show...

    But, the foundational point is that it is up to the person making a statement, any statement, to demonstrate that statement to be reality. If I say, "Human males give birth to live young." then I'm the person who must come up with at least one human male who carried a fetus to term and then gave birth to it. It isn't up to my listeners to prove that I am wrong. My expecting them to prove me wrong is a logical fallacy and a sign of an inability to think on an adult level.

    I consider prayer to be a "blankie for adults", a placebo, but I'm certainly open to being shown that I'm wrong. It is for those who claim that "prayer works" to demonstrate the reality of that statement.

    I just sit here and say..."show me".
    (more)
  • Darth V... tredzwater 2012/06/27 02:14:53
    Darth Vader.BN-0
    That's proof that it helps... It's not proof that praying doesn't create miracles.. You confronted me about something not being fact, even though I never said it was a fact. Shouldn't I be saying, "Show me."?
  • PUNX! Omni 2012/06/15 10:15:36
    PUNX!
    +2
    You can also pray for other people, I've done that before and seen changes in that person, prayer is not all about an individual, you can pray for whoever you like =]
  • Omni PUNX! 2012/06/15 12:21:54
    Omni
    +1
    So who you're praying for is more important than these sickly, starving children?
  • lyle Omni 2012/06/15 13:40:51
    lyle
    +1
    you pray for what is in your heart, not for what is 'politically correct'
  • Kibbles Omni 2012/06/18 17:27:12
    Kibbles
    That's a loaded question there omni and you should know that.
  • Kibbles Omni 2012/06/18 17:26:39
    Kibbles
    I pray for them as well, I pray for all humanity in hopes that we may work together soon for the greater good. I agree it seems incredibly arrogant to pray for ones self.
  • beach bum 2012/06/15 04:43:13
    Yes
    beach bum
  • Luv♥Luv beach bum 2012/06/16 14:30:38 (edited)
    Luv♥Luv
    +1
    Hello my friend, have a great day!
  • beach bum Luv♥Luv 2012/06/17 01:34:32
    beach bum
    +1
    yw luv
  • BrianD3 Luv♥Luv 2012/06/18 11:17:05
    BrianD3
    +2
    While I appreciate the attention, what is the deal with hijacking my poll? How dare you presume to thank everyone for responding to my poll.
  • Luv♥Luv BrianD3 2012/06/18 11:59:50 (edited)
    Luv♥Luv
    Replying to my friend darthoz Edited to say: Wow, Lemon you sure are disrespectful. After all my raves, etc. to your questions, etc.
    I have friends here and it's my right to reply to them.
    Then you go and block me. How very childish.
  • Nish 2012/06/15 04:42:19
    Yes
    Nish
    +4
    Absolutely
  • Luv♥Luv Nish 2012/06/16 14:30:44 (edited)
    Luv♥Luv
    +1
    Agree! Have a great day!

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