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Dead Man Is Too Fat For Science: Fair or Foul?

mrosen814 2012/08/02 20:00:00
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59-year-old George Cardel from Queens wanted to donate his body to science after he died. But a medical school crushed his final wish by not accepting his corpse, due to its... er... large size.

Even worse, "the 59-year-old man’s body wasn’t returned for 13 days — so badly decomposed it required cremation." Former New York City chief medical examiner Michael Baden said it’s not surprising that a medical school would turn down an obese corpse. Baden goes onto say, “an obese person would be harder to dissect because of the amount of fat tissue under the skin."

NYDAILYNEWS.COM reports:
George Cardel’s final wish died with him — doomed by his hefty 300-pound frame. The Queens mechanical engineer had hoped to donate his body to science, but that dream was dashed when a medical school rejected his corpse because of its girth, a $2 million lawsuit claims.
too fat

Read More: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/hospital-rejec...

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Top Opinion

  • Keegan The Fabulous 2012/08/03 00:09:31 (edited)
    Foul
    Keegan The Fabulous
    +23


    Shame on the school for keeping the body for so long without even trying to preserve it... and after rejecting it too! Most coroners don't keep bodies in their offices for that long without chilling them and replacing the blood with preservatives to keep the bacteria at bay. Heck, I even bet the U.S. prison system sends dead prisoners back to their families sooner than that, and with their bodies preserved too.

    Shame on them, also, for (more than likely) disadvantaging students by not teaching them how to deal with fat bodies. Let's just hope every body that lands on these students' surgery/autopsy tables is thin as a twig, if the school isn't going to do anything about their curriculum's flaws.

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Opinions

  • JULIE 2012/08/03 04:51:25
    Fair
    JULIE
    +1
    I meant to hit Foul
    They could have studied obesity
  • tommyg - POTL- PWCM-JLA 2012/08/03 04:44:20
    Fair
    tommyg - POTL- PWCM-JLA
    +2
    I expected to see big, fat feet.
  • The Mosher 2012/08/03 04:35:24
    Foul
    The Mosher
    +3
    beggars can't be choosers in the corpse for science industry, not to mention most of america is fat sooo isn't that a perfect specimen.
  • Cheyenna Nicole 2012/08/03 04:28:21
    Foul
    Cheyenna Nicole
    +1
    I Don't think that's right. It's like being racist against obese people! lol
  • MercuryZero 2012/08/03 04:20:53
    Foul
    MercuryZero
    +3
    That's just mean. As if they haven't had to operate on an obese man before.
  • Z-Wolf 2012/08/03 04:19:11
    Fair
    Z-Wolf
    I understand suing them for the whole 13 days thing. Since he did have to be cremated. But, seriously when you donate your body, they have a choice if they want to use you or not. You can't blame them for not wanting his body. They don't need obese people. Normally what they do is test stuff on it, or perform surgery for bones. Having you be obese isn't helping anyone. They couldn't use him, and he should have thought of that before he decided to donate his entire body. Should have just been an organ donor.
  • Ken 2012/08/03 04:12:23
    Fair
    Ken
    +1
    Consequence of life.
  • Dagon 2012/08/03 04:11:01
  • Torchy 2012/08/03 03:51:51
    Foul
    Torchy
    +3
    It's for science -- analyze the fat too! We're a very obese nation, I'm sure there's something we can learn from his bloated corpse.
  • xxCrystalAuraxx 2012/08/03 03:41:06
    Fair
    xxCrystalAuraxx
    It's not that they are neglecting to teach med students how to work with obese patients, which I think is the assumption. If a fat person needs embalming or an autopsy done, we manage fine. But donated cadavers are tools for learning anatomy, and needing a bone saw to get through layers of fat and still not being able to see anything just isn't practical.
  • DPRKworker 2012/08/03 03:23:54
    Fair
    DPRKworker
    +1
    Lots of fat people voting on this one, huh? The fact is that after bodies are preserved the fatty tissue hardens and becomes very difficult to cut through. This has NOTHING to do with operating on live fat people. It's nothing more than basic chemistry; if you don't like it then go for a jog.
  • mikeeonly 2012/08/03 03:22:17
    Foul
    mikeeonly
    +2
    the man had good intentions
  • Dan 2012/08/03 03:08:16
    Foul
    Dan
    +1
    Picky! Picky! If it would have helped one person it was worth it.
  • Bilingual required sucks 2012/08/03 02:54:31 (edited)
    Fair
    Bilingual required sucks
    +2
    Well for one thing, I don't see why the body would be returned decomposed. Medical schools buy cadavers from biomedical supply companies that have already been "fixed" that is soaked and infused with perservative fluids, so they essentially never decompose. Medical students use the same cadaver for months. I have done dissection labs before and it would be very difficult to cut through adipose (fat) tissue of that mass, as in the process of preservation, those tissues turn into a very tough material (sort of like a very hard cheese) that is frankly a pain in the ass to cut through. It would physically be difficult to remove that tissue to observe the underlying structures.
    The decision to reject the body had nothing to do with prejudice against obese people.
  • Tella6 Bilingu... 2012/08/03 11:19:29
    Tella6
    +1
    Thanks for explaining. Cleared up some confusion for me.
  • Bilingu... Tella6 2012/08/03 12:19:43
    Bilingual required sucks
    Quite welcome.
  • SOUL4REAL 2012/08/03 02:46:51 (edited)
    Foul
    SOUL4REAL
    +4
    This article is unthinkable! Will they feel the same way if he needed surgery? What is this world coming too? "Vanity"! This man has a family who loved him obese and all, and I hope they sue the hell out of them for holding his body that long for it to be badly decomposed! R.I.P. Mr George Cardel!
  • the_old_coach 2012/08/03 02:29:42
    Foul
    the_old_coach
    +3
    Poor phrasing: His was body wasn't too fat for SCIENCE, it was too fat for the purposes of the medical school that rejected his donation.

    The body should have immediately been donated to the Forensic Anthropology Center at UT-Knoxville--the infamous Dr. William "Bill" Bass Body Farm--in Tennesee.

    http://web.utk.edu/~fac/
    http://www.damninteresting.co...
  • Farbiger 2012/08/03 02:21:57
    Foul
    Farbiger
    +2
    Excuse my ignorance, but couldn't they have just basically done a liposuction type of procedure before dissection?
  • cnsharp 2012/08/03 02:13:18
    Fair
    cnsharp
    +1
    They are donating their body to science and their is going to be the possibility that those bodies are not going to be wanted. Same thing would go if someone had a heart condition if the people running the group planned on heart examinations they have a right to decline that body,
  • David 2012/08/03 02:12:38 (edited)
    Fair
    David
    +1
    Donation only has value if it is desired by others. I could choose to donate my property to an institution or group, but if it doesn't help them or they don't want it, then my donation would be useless. His obesity is clearly something that is difficult to work with and something that is not desired. However, they should have returned his body much sooner.
  • tori 2012/08/03 02:09:25
    Foul
    tori
    +1
    Because no one needs practice operating on those who are overweight? And they could have atleast returned it in a timely fashion.
  • Twinkle 2012/08/03 02:06:15
    Fair
    Twinkle
    +1
    No this is actually true because the U.S.A people seem to be getting more overweight and they don't want any more body for science. I can understand this.
  • Katie 2012/08/03 01:53:10
    Fair
    Katie
    +1
    I am sort of torn on this one. As someone who has taken an advanced anatomy class that required dissecting cadavers, I can say that average sized cadavers are hard enough for students to dissect without extra fatty tissue. Also, for an exam that requires locating/identifying certain parts, it would be very unfair to give one group an average sized subject and another group an obese one, so he couldn't be used in some settings. I do think that it is important for us students to see and work on all body types though, so I don't think he should have been returned, but I can see the logic behind the decision.
  • Sterling 2012/08/03 01:37:12
    Fair
    Sterling
    +2
    It's a donation, you're not legally obliged to accept it. That's like saying if I turned down a guy's offer of an old car because it would cost me a thousand dollars to fix it I owe him money.
  • Brian ☮ R P ☮ 2012 ☮ 2012/08/03 01:36:16
    Foul
    Brian ☮ R P ☮ 2012 ☮
    +3
    Well, there goes my plan to donate MY body.
  • Mrs.Vader 2012/08/03 00:58:38
    Foul
    Mrs.Vader
    +5
    A lot of people don't realize, but when you donate your body to science, you don't really get any say in how it should be used. I went to Dr. Bass's body farm and most of the bodies there were donated to science. Not all of them go to medical schools. In this case, it's kind of a shame he wasn't sent to Dr. Bass. He needs to study decomp rates for people of any size, gender, ethnicity etc.
  • the_old... Mrs.Vader 2012/08/03 02:24:02
    the_old_coach
    +3
    I thought of Dr. Bass's body farm when I read this. It should have been donated immediately after rejection from the medical school. As it turned out, his donation went for naught. What a shame.

    http://www.damninteresting.co...
  • Hannie 2012/08/03 00:54:43
    Foul
    Hannie
    +4
    You're gonna have to do surgery on a pudgy person sooner or later.
  • peaches 2012/08/03 00:52:57 (edited)
    Fair
    peaches
    +1
    I'm not going to argue with scientists... They are much more knowledgeable on the topic than I am! Who am I to tell them what bodies to use?
    Besides, you aren't entitled to earn your "dying wish".
  • KB 2012/08/03 00:44:57
    Foul
    KB
    +7
    So a baby, whom has no voice of it's own, can be donated for science, but a guy who's overweight can't? What the hell?
  • Kingarthurup 2012/08/03 00:35:15
    Foul
    Kingarthurup
    +3
    yeah, but people have to eat...
  • Miss Ellen 2012/08/03 00:30:34
    Foul
    Miss Ellen
    +5
    With all the many obesity related diseases plaguing mankind today, could they not learn anything from this mans remains? And then not to return his body for 13 days? Wow...
  • retrograve 2012/08/03 00:25:31
    Foul
    retrograve
    +2
    Study different body types to see how the size and proportion effect them like what disease what also swells etc.

    But the body was decomposing so understandably they wouldn't take it. Though that could be a study in its self.
  • malikasecrets 2012/08/03 00:17:20
    Fair
    malikasecrets
    +1
    I have plans to donate my body when I die. I have to stay under 150 pounds. Too much fat gets in the way of exploring the organs that need to be studies. sorry. (I have to loose 20 pounds before I can die.) sleeping beauty
  • BifDaddy 2012/08/03 00:16:29
    Foul
    BifDaddy
    +3
    Sounds like Obamacare is ratcheting up into full swing.

    First the deceased. Then the elderly. Then…well, we all know the rest of the story.

    The medical industry discriminating. Who would have thought it?
  • Keegan The Fabulous 2012/08/03 00:09:31 (edited)
    Foul
    Keegan The Fabulous
    +23


    Shame on the school for keeping the body for so long without even trying to preserve it... and after rejecting it too! Most coroners don't keep bodies in their offices for that long without chilling them and replacing the blood with preservatives to keep the bacteria at bay. Heck, I even bet the U.S. prison system sends dead prisoners back to their families sooner than that, and with their bodies preserved too.

    Shame on them, also, for (more than likely) disadvantaging students by not teaching them how to deal with fat bodies. Let's just hope every body that lands on these students' surgery/autopsy tables is thin as a twig, if the school isn't going to do anything about their curriculum's flaws.
  • malikas... Keegan ... 2012/08/03 00:21:03
    malikasecrets
    +2
    I agree with you. When I was over weight by more, THEY rejected me. They had their reasons. I lost weight and have a certificate to donate my corpse. I am not telling them that I gained a few pounds back. I hope I done die overweight.My reasons are that I don't want to burden my family with my dead expenses and I think students need to have a body to study.
  • BongRipper Keegan ... 2012/08/03 14:08:33
    BongRipper
    Coroners don't keep bodies in their office, they keep bodies in the morgue. Surgery, autopsy, and scientific research are three very different things

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