Dead Man Is Too Fat For Science: Fair or Foul?

by mrosen814 Posted 2012/08/02 20:00:00

Related Topics: Health, Science, George Cardel, Weird News

797 votes
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	Fair	306 votes	38%
	Foul	491 votes	62%

59-year-old George Cardel from Queens wanted to donate his body to science after he died. But a medical school crushed his final wish by not accepting his corpse, due to its... er... large size.

Even worse, "the 59-year-old man’s body wasn’t returned for 13 days — so badly decomposed it required cremation." Former New York City chief medical examiner Michael Baden said it’s not surprising that a medical school would turn down an obese corpse. Baden goes onto say, “an obese person would be harder to dissect because of the amount of fat tissue under the skin."

NYDAILYNEWS.COM reports:
George Cardel’s final wish died with him — doomed by his hefty 300-pound frame. The Queens mechanical engineer had hoped to donate his body to science, but that dream was dashed when a medical school rejected his corpse because of its girth, a $2 million lawsuit claims.

+23

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KeeganTheAwesome 2012/08/03 00:09:31 (edited)

Foul

+23

Shame on the school for keeping the body for so long without even trying to preserve it... and after rejecting it too! Most coroners don't keep bodies in their offices for that long without chilling them and replacing the blood with preservatives to keep the bacteria at bay. Heck, I even bet the U.S. prison system sends dead prisoners back to their families sooner than that, and with their bodies preserved too.

Shame on them, also, for (more than likely) disadvantaging students by not teaching them how to deal with fat bodies. Let's just hope every body that lands on these students' surgery/autopsy tables is thin as a twig, if the school isn't going to do anything about their curriculum's flaws.
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Mj PINKYFINGERDOWN 2013/01/14 03:28:17 (edited)
Invader_Ellie_Slamacow 2012/09/11 23:58:47

Fair

so what? he's dead. I don't think he'll be caring that much.

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Johnathan Cage 2012/09/11 22:55:33

Fair

I selected foul

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Robin 2012/09/06 04:31:25

Fair

Now, I say this as a advanced Practicing RN.... I can completely understand them refusing the body, However, I cry foul when it comes to 1. why did they accept it in the first place 2. not returning the gentleman to his family so they could deal with his remains in a respectful fashion. The med school is completely wrong and disrespectful in holding onto him, and allowing him to decompose.

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D34dIndian 2012/08/21 15:52:05

Fair

I love how some of these fat asses want to make people look at them even when they are died. lol Go eat eat another box of Krispy Cream fat heads.

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Robin to D34dIndian 2012/09/06 04:35:06
D34dIndian to Robin 2012/09/06 07:04:14 (edited)

I apologize for making you upset. Obesity is a serous health problem that people should try to control, unless you are taking certain meds that make it so you have a weight problem obese people should try to take control of their own life. if you do not want to do that. I see no problem with letting them stay fat and encouraging them to hurry up with there slow death, though it could be a little mean, but encouraging to be indifferent seems a little foul. If you are obese try going to pool and start doing laps 3 times a week or more. Or go ahead and run to Krispy Kream and go grab another box of donuts. At least this man is doing something, but he is still to fat to fly!

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Robin to D34dIndian 2012/09/08 07:39:39

Well, I aint fat. I am a Nurse Practitioner, and see how ridiculing fat people hurts them. But anyway, good to here back from you, I am 5 ft 10 in and160 lbs.

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D34dIndian to Robin 2012/09/08 17:15:50 (edited)

+1
That sounds healthy to me. I am 6,0' 220 lb. Women are defiantly built different than men.

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ZachStowe 2012/08/08 05:18:49

Fair

+5
I would like to know how many people out of the 474 votes for "foul" have actually worked on a cadaver. I would venture to say no more than 5%. I have worked on 2 cadavers both which were about 80-100 pound elderly women and it was sill sort of difficult to work around the small amount of fat they had on their torso. It would be extremely difficult to work on somebody who has probably 6-12 inches of fat covering their body, especially for students working on a cadaver for their first time.

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Robin to ZachStowe 2012/09/06 04:37:59

+1
I agree with you about the fat, having worked on cadavers as well. But the anatomy lab was wrong in taking his body in the first place, and then not returning it in a reasonable time so that they family could have taken care of his remains in a more respectful fashion. I applaud him for his good intentions... but he was too big for newbies to work on. Even experienced surgeons need assistance with people of size as they are difficult to work with.

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GoatHorns 2012/08/06 22:36:59

Fair

+1
WAAAAAAHHHHH it's not faiiirrrrrrrrrrr

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Jaiheena Star 2012/08/06 22:34:00

Foul

This is damn ignorant

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thebassics82 2012/08/06 21:23:41

Fair

+1
It would make for good research to see exactly what being fat does to the body's internal and joints physically though maybe they should have kept him for that type of research!

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sokoyah 2012/08/06 18:17:02

Foul

disrespectful

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Yuki ~ ... to sokoyah 2012/08/06 19:38:45

+1
See my post below.

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Yuki ~ ♦Lion King of PHÆT♦ 2012/08/06 17:40:40 (edited)

Fair

+8
Be reasonable, people! They don't have freezers large enough for bodies of that size, which is why it was returned so badly decomposed. Unless the lawyers want to pay to buy the medical school to get a freezer large enough for a 300-pound body, there's no solution to this other than to accept that the medical school just couldn't take it.

The dissection isn't even the problem. Medical students will have to deal with obese patients, even operate on them, and that would be a good learning experience for them. The professors and instructors most likely recognize this. The real problem is the fact that they don't have the facilities to look after a corpse of that size.

Furthermore, I'm not surprised it took them nearly two weeks to return it. Think about it. The body would have been dropped off, and they wouldn't have realized they couldn't accept it until it was too late to tell them to take it back. And then there's the matter of how to arrange what happens with corpses-- they couldn't just send it back, because there was no one to send it back to. They would have been stuck trying to contact the family, to ask them to take it, and believe it or not, some families actually don't respond to such calls in a timely or helpful manner. And once they DID have a place to send the body ba...

Be reasonable, people! They don't have freezers large enough for bodies of that size, which is why it was returned so badly decomposed. Unless the lawyers want to pay to buy the medical school to get a freezer large enough for a 300-pound body, there's no solution to this other than to accept that the medical school just couldn't take it.

The dissection isn't even the problem. Medical students will have to deal with obese patients, even operate on them, and that would be a good learning experience for them. The professors and instructors most likely recognize this. The real problem is the fact that they don't have the facilities to look after a corpse of that size.

Furthermore, I'm not surprised it took them nearly two weeks to return it. Think about it. The body would have been dropped off, and they wouldn't have realized they couldn't accept it until it was too late to tell them to take it back. And then there's the matter of how to arrange what happens with corpses-- they couldn't just send it back, because there was no one to send it back to. They would have been stuck trying to contact the family, to ask them to take it, and believe it or not, some families actually don't respond to such calls in a timely or helpful manner. And once they DID have a place to send the body back to, they would have needed a very strong lift to carry a 300-pound dead man and have him trucked over to whatever funeral home was paid to cremate him.

I'm sorry it took two weeks to do that, but it's realistic and understandable that it took so long. It had nothing to do with disrespect or not caring about the body.
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Bilingu... to Yuki ~ ... 2012/08/06 22:20:55

Cadavers are bought from biomedical supply companies, They do not take a body from the hospital to a medical school. It has to be preserved first, soaked in fermaldehyde for a month before it reaches a medical school. Fresh bodies would decompose and the medical students would be in danger of infection.

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Yuki ~ ... to Bilingu... 2012/08/07 12:53:35 (edited)

+2
Firstly, cadavers cannot be BOUGHT anymore. This used to be true, but it is not the case anymore, and certainly not currently relevant. But whoever is in charge of the program that requires the cadavers has to decide how many they need per year, how to distribute them, to arrange transport, etc. They don't look at a list of cadavers and say, "We want this one, this one, and this one." They say, "We need x number of cadavers".

Secondly, despite preservative chemicals (of which phenol is used in larger quantities than formaldehyde), they still have to keep the body chilled.

So what most likely happened is that the cadaver was brought in, and when they came to put it away for storage until needed, they discovered the body was too big. Very simple, right? So they had no place to store it. Furthermore, the embalming process is completed at the medical center associated with the school the cadaver is sent to, which means they likely had difficulty making arrangements with the funeral director the body came from for the proper disposal of the body-- especially since most states have laws governing this sort of thing, and no prior arrangements were made for the funeral home to take care of that body (beyond their half of the embalming process and allowing it to be taken to the school.)

I...

Firstly, cadavers cannot be BOUGHT anymore. This used to be true, but it is not the case anymore, and certainly not currently relevant. But whoever is in charge of the program that requires the cadavers has to decide how many they need per year, how to distribute them, to arrange transport, etc. They don't look at a list of cadavers and say, "We want this one, this one, and this one." They say, "We need x number of cadavers".

Secondly, despite preservative chemicals (of which phenol is used in larger quantities than formaldehyde), they still have to keep the body chilled.

So what most likely happened is that the cadaver was brought in, and when they came to put it away for storage until needed, they discovered the body was too big. Very simple, right? So they had no place to store it. Furthermore, the embalming process is completed at the medical center associated with the school the cadaver is sent to, which means they likely had difficulty making arrangements with the funeral director the body came from for the proper disposal of the body-- especially since most states have laws governing this sort of thing, and no prior arrangements were made for the funeral home to take care of that body (beyond their half of the embalming process and allowing it to be taken to the school.)

I'm actually surprised this got taken care of in two weeks. I know someone who had to dissect a 300lb cadaver before, and it took them a month to get around to it (short-staffed, and she couldn't move the body onto the table alone), and they didn't have a freezer big enough for it.
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Bilingu... to Yuki ~ ... 2012/08/07 14:11:09

It's not just an emalming process, plastic is injected in to the vessels, (blue for veins, and red for arteries) so they can be easily visualized upon dissection.
Where did you get the idea that biomedical companies no longer sell cadavers?

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Yuki ~ ... to Bilingu... 2012/08/07 18:25:04

Yes, they are. That's typically done by the medical school, though, and not the funeral home. They don't just take the body and then stick it in the cooler-- they have to complete part of the preparation process after arrival, and then arrange for it's disposal (usually by cremation) once the dissection is done.

Medical institutions cannot buy bodies today. They COULD buy them in the era of graverobbing or of automatically giving criminals' bodies, but no longer-- they are donations.

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krystina to Yuki ~ ... 2012/08/19 21:45:30

You make it sound like hes as big as a mack truck...ive seen the refrigerator door in an autopsy room and a 600 pound man could fit no problem...my grandfather was over 300 and no lift was required to lift is body off the ground to put him in the van to take him to the morgue...or to lift him into the hearse... perhaps you need to rethink how big 300 pounds is and a realistic perspective on it...

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Yuki ~ ... to krystina 2012/08/20 00:34:54

+1
"...and a 600 pound man could fit no problem."

Not every refrigerator is the same size, unfortunately.

Also, I'm rather skeptical. Did you just see a door, or actually see the whole refrigerator? And are we talking real life... or the autopsy doors you see on NCIS and The Mentalist?

The person I knew almost couldn't do the 560+ pound man that arrived one day because he wouldn't fit, and I'm not at all sorry to tell you that 300lbs of dead weight is exceptionally large considering the space a medical school has, and the other corpses they have to take care of.

Fact is, knowing what I know, I don't blame them at all for rejecting the corpse, and I'm perfectly understanding of why it took two weeks to arrange for it to be returned.

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dick 2012/08/06 16:54:05

Fair

Maybe his organs should have just been harvested eyes, skin, there are a lot of parts that his size wouldn't have mattered but evidently he didn't care what they did with the corpse or he wouldn't have donated it!

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Ramón 2012/08/06 16:45:51

Fair

+2
Studying a fat guy's (or gal's) corpse may be good science, but face it... when the body needs a crane to move around... my tax dollars fund the coroners office, and like it or not... funding is in short supply. If the fat guy is rich, then let him pay for it out of his estate, if not... oh, well. My taxes = hard work. So, no. It is just right to not accept plus sizes. And as for keeping it 13 days? If someone plopped 300 lbs of anything on my lawn I'd be hard pressed (pun not intended) to find a way to move it. Do it a. myself? No. Bad back. Do it b. by hiring someone? No. Can't afford it, so who else will pay? The only mistake they made was in not saying, "Um. He's too big," and not turning away the casket.

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wgossett99 2012/08/06 15:04:28

Fair

+5
Hey, it's a donation. The recipient is not obligated to take the donation.

However the body should have been returned or cremated much sooner.

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Christopher Kirchen 2012/08/06 13:33:53

Foul

+1
He could be used as a cautionary tale, as to what happens when you get fat.

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brian.southworth.921 2012/08/06 13:27:46

Foul

+1
And seems a little stupid to not use the cadaver. I'm sure that at some point in time some doctor is going to have to operate on a large person. It could be practice. But then to not take care of the corpse does seem a little inconsiderate.

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Matt Forrester 2012/08/06 13:09:37

Fair

+1
While I don't agree with the way that the matter was dealt with & the 13 day wait for the corpse to be returned, if the school have valid reasons for not wanting it then what's the problem, honestly?!

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mihai71 2012/08/06 07:11:29

Foul

+1
Science shouldn't go by size.

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haaaaaa to mihai71 2012/08/06 16:29:06

+1
but it does, you can't really change the laws of nature. It's harder to cut through more fat than less. That's just how physics works. More fat is harder to get out of the way than less fat.

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mihai71 to haaaaaa 2012/11/02 15:03:36

Of course it is harder to cut through. What is funny they didn't realize how big he is from the very beggining? Why did they accept the body at all? By the way do you work for that university?

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Seiryuu to mihai71 2012/08/06 19:31:26

It shouldn't, but there are limits as to how much preservation a medical school's facilities can handle.

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mihai71 to Seiryuu 2012/11/02 15:06:20

Seems that there are limits how much thinking a medical school can produce. They couldn't realize that the body is too big for some 10 days.

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addie 2012/08/06 06:11:13

Fair

+3
It was unfortunate, but these people are just looking to make money.

If they had no way to use him, they had no way to use him.

What I found very funny is, in one article I read, the family said they are suing do to being humiliated. They are the ones making this public and why are they humiliated anyway?

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BlondeAphrodite 2012/08/06 05:36:03

Foul

+1
cut his fatass open and show the students what his clogged arteries look like to teach the students why to avoid cheetos and mcdonnalds fries

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Jeremy 2012/08/06 02:20:59

Fair

+3
HA, fatty...

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Liv 2012/08/06 01:04:28

Foul

+1
13 days without preservation? Really? I mean it doesn't bother me that they couldn't study it because of his weight, but if they couldn't, why'd they keep it for so long? Think about what that did to the family. Selfish and ignorant. Not everything is just science.

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Ada Whitmire 2012/08/06 00:42:35

Foul

+1
How can you just let someones body just rot like that if you didn't want it.
I might be a little biased because I have super necrophobia (fear of dead things) but I couldn't see how they could stand just letting the guy decay in their possession.

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JPKittee 2012/08/05 23:12:32

Foul

+1
300 pounds isn't that big in this day and age of obese people My ex-husband although he has lost weight, is still over 400 pounds, and was up to 500 pounds for quite a long time. He was for all intents and purposes disgusting to me, and he'd been that way for close to 18 years. however, keeping a body out of refrigeration while the school decides whether they're going to keep it, is not a good thing. If they were not going to keep his donated body, they should have at least let the body go to the funeral home and be buried or cremated by his family. Perhaps there may have been another school that could have made use of his donation. At any rate, they screwed up and they owe the family an apology for desecrating his body by letting him deteriorate outside of a refrigerated area. Shame on them. I hope if someone else decides to donate their body to science upon their death, they make it clear that if the school doesn't want it, it should be returned for burial posthaste and not left to moulder and decay as this one did.

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