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'All The Cool Girls Are Lesbians' Shirt Stirs Controversy At School

★~DoctorWhoGuru~★ 2012/03/14 00:35:53
 All The Cool Girls Are Lesbians  Shirt Stirs Controversy At School

VIDEO:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/13/all-the-cool-girls-a...

Controversy erupted at a Lynn English High School meeting that was held to discuss an incident where a student was told to cover up -- and never bring back to school -- a shirt that read, "All the cool girls are lesbians," WDHD-TV reports.

Although the student wore the shirt back in January, it wasn't addressed until Mayor Judith Flanagan Kennedy brought it up to the school committee last week.

In the meeting, Kennedy said the girl contacted her to say she had been wronged by the school, a sentiment with which the mayor told the committee she agreed.

"I did some legal research on this and I believe she is right," Kennedy told the Daily Item. "I don't believe the school had the authority to ask her to cover it up."

According to the Item, the girl's letter said Vice Principal Joseph O'Hagan told her to cover up her shirt because it was "political" and "offensive to some people."

If girls were allowed to wear shirts that say "I love boys," the student said, she should be allowed to wear hers.

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  • MrSexyPants 2012/03/15 03:54:11
    MrSexyPants
    +1
    that's so stupid!! wow... people these days. smh...
  • BeingMe<3 2012/03/14 19:24:20
  • Metaldane 2012/03/14 14:43:58
    Metaldane
    +1
    I don't see what the issue is so what she wore a shirt that says she thinks lesbians are cool anyone offended by something as simple as that is the one with issues
  • iamthemob ~ the 444th Guru ~ 2012/03/14 07:17:55
    iamthemob ~ the 444th Guru ~
    +1
    If it's a public school...I would say that she has the right to wear it pretty solidly.

    Private school might be a different matter...unless the school had a blanket policy forbidding all types of shirts with messages or something of that kind.
  • Frank iamthem... 2012/03/14 17:02:37 (edited)
  • iamthem... Frank 2012/03/14 17:09:23
    iamthemob ~ the 444th Guru ~
    The second one is problematic I would say mostly for the pretty explicit sexual innuendo. And it's borderline where it seems your being anti-something.

    But again, it depends on the above matters.
  • Frank iamthem... 2012/03/14 17:11:22
  • iamthem... Frank 2012/03/14 17:14:32 (edited)
    iamthemob ~ the 444th Guru ~
    Yes it is. First, you know that gay people face different discrimination. Second, showing support for a group doesn't mandate that the counterexample is mocked.

    But note...I said I would apply the same standards in the end most likely.
  • Frank iamthem... 2012/03/14 17:29:59
  • iamthem... Frank 2012/03/14 17:32:32
    iamthemob ~ the 444th Guru ~
    Did I say that it did? No. But, there is an additional element to consider there.
  • Frank iamthem... 2012/03/14 17:34:37
  • iamthem... Frank 2012/03/14 17:44:19
    iamthemob ~ the 444th Guru ~
    I would have the same problem as with the suck t-shirt.

    Free speech is not absolute. The issue with the negative shirts that MAY impact here is that the school also has an interest in ensuring that the environment is inclusive for all students as possible. T-shirts like you mention are purposefully divisive.

    That requires more analysis...and I'm not quite certain on it. I think that lesbian shirt is a positive support of a position or group...and think that kind of expression more clearly works with other interests the school has to consider (much like wearing a shirt that says "I belong to Jesus" or "Life begins at conception" etc.)
  • Frank iamthem... 2012/03/14 17:48:08
  • iamthem... Frank 2012/03/14 17:59:33
    iamthemob ~ the 444th Guru ~
    +1
    Could be but isn't CLEARLY divisive. It's not saying that someone else is bad or wrong or immoral. And the cool aspect is a stretch.

    And with the second example you again touch on the particular prejudices that one group suffers. I think that would be considered offensive because so much of the message kids get IS that it's not okay...that you'll be mocked...etc. (note...that's kind of what the gay pride celebrations are about...it's not about declaring pride in being gay, but rather the fact that you're not ashamed to be despite what you were told).

    AS to whether a kid should be sent home for that...I don't know. I don't think so, really. I think it could start a good discussion, actually. The negative side, though, is about shutting down the opposition.

    Do you see the difference between "I love white people" and "Black people suck"?
  • Frank iamthem... 2012/03/14 21:34:47
  • iamthem... Frank 2012/03/14 21:43:20
    iamthemob ~ the 444th Guru ~
    Again, "could" be, and isn't designed to be necessarily. There's always a grey area that should be talked abut.

    As to the whole idea that you must like women to be cool if you're a girl...when the message is so overwhelmingly against the idea of homosexuality socially, publicly, etc....I don't think that's a genuine concern. ;-)

    So what is your position on this then.
  • Frank iamthem... 2012/03/14 21:50:28
  • iamthem... Frank 2012/03/14 21:53:00
    iamthemob ~ the 444th Guru ~
    What is your position, again?

    Also, where did I say that something shouldn't as a fact be allowed?
  • Frank iamthem... 2012/03/14 23:11:39
  • iamthem... Frank 2012/03/15 00:15:58
    iamthemob ~ the 444th Guru ~
    +1
    It's not all or nothing. There are always going to be competing interests. Speech issues are never absolute.

    So you're saying that if the Lesbian shirt is okay, that it's okay also to have someone come in with something that says "All fa**ots should die"? That's an all or nothing position.
  • MrSexyP... iamthem... 2012/03/15 04:05:31
    MrSexyPants
    +1
    right there witcha bro. i followed this whole arguement and i'm feelin what ur saying. it's one thing to promote a group and another thing to downplay another. or promote a group that promotes hate and downplay a group that doesn't. speech isn't.... i forgot the word u said, but it's not a black n white issue. there are many gray areas...
  • Frank MrSexyP... 2012/03/15 12:12:19
  • Frank iamthem... 2012/03/15 12:10:38
  • iamthem... Frank 2012/03/15 12:24:42
    iamthemob ~ the 444th Guru ~
    Nope. You've ignored everything that I've said.

    You really want to see hypocrisy here, and seem determined to find it. Please go back and count the number of times that I've said that I wasn't saying that one should be banned and not the other...but that there weren't black and white answers here or in speech generally...and did that EACH TIME that you said something along the lines of your "if you like it it's okay" statement above.
  • Frank iamthem... 2012/03/15 12:28:21
  • iamthem... Frank 2012/03/15 12:54:11
    iamthemob ~ the 444th Guru ~
    Alright. So someone gets to wear a shirt that says "kill all the f*ckin teachers."

    That sounds reasonable.
  • Frank iamthem... 2012/03/15 13:02:21
  • iamthem... Frank 2012/03/15 13:08:54
    iamthemob ~ the 444th Guru ~
    Wait...NOW it's a gray area?

    It's not calling for violence, really. I mean, no one's really going to kill all the teachers cause of a shirt.

    It's still promoting a belief. Just because someone might take it really literally and be offended that's not a reason to single out them.
  • Frank iamthem... 2012/03/15 13:42:25
  • iamthem... Frank 2012/03/15 13:44:04
    iamthemob ~ the 444th Guru ~
    Ah.

    So something like "All Jews will go to hell" will work, right?
  • Frank iamthem... 2012/03/15 13:55:59
  • iamthem... Frank 2012/03/15 14:17:28
    iamthemob ~ the 444th Guru ~
    Oh, because I'm gay? I wasn't going to assume that you were pressing the point, but are you saying that it is because I'm gay? You can say it...it's alright...

    Now, knowing that gay people are a pretty discriminated against minority...let me ask you this: does the message of the t-shirt likely carry enough weight that it would send the message to the other kids that they actually were less valuable than gay people? Honestly...
  • Frank iamthem... 2012/03/15 14:25:39
  • iamthem... Frank 2012/03/15 14:33:22
    iamthemob ~ the 444th Guru ~
    Could you again tell me why I OPPOSE the shirt? Why are you claiming it AGAIN?

    Free speech is balanced against other interests. It should be respected in most cases against those interests, but it will not always be the more powerful one, or there may be reasons for reasonable restrictions.

    You didn't answer my question, though.
  • Frank iamthem... 2012/03/15 14:37:51
  • iamthem... Frank 2012/03/15 14:46:14
    iamthemob ~ the 444th Guru ~
    (1) I never said I opposed it. Show me where I did.

    (2) Do you contend, then, that gay people in high school can walk freely around without fear of being harassed or beaten up in the same way straight people can?
  • Frank iamthem... 2012/03/15 15:09:49
  • iamthem... Frank 2012/03/15 15:21:46
    iamthemob ~ the 444th Guru ~
    (1) Did I not also say that they should be judged generally by the same standards?

    (2) Does me saying problematic actually denote clear opposition?

    (3) Did I not repeat that I did not oppose it, but was merely unsure as I felt it got more grey?

    (4) I'm asking about gay people. Please don't pretend that the harassment is the same as other kinds. That's dishonest.
  • Frank iamthem... 2012/03/15 15:25:14
  • iamthem... Frank 2012/03/15 15:35:14
    iamthemob ~ the 444th Guru ~
    (1) So...I said that I didn't oppose it but that doesn't take away from the fact that I indicated that I did oppose it? No...you inferred opposition and I literally said no.

    (2) I said I didn't oppose it. So there's not enough.

    (3) According to you.

    (4) You don't understand discrimination, the law, and general rights then.

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