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Macs are of course more expensive than non-Mac products. That's nearly a given. That said, your post was slightly comparing apples (no pun intended) to oranges.

For example, for me to build a machine with basically the same specs as those listed for the PC in the photo, it would come out to approximately $1900-2000. This does not include the monitors, speakers, or warranty, and I don't know anything about RAID support, so I didn't account for that either. It does otherwise have the exact same graphics card and processor, same specs for everything else, except that I chose the optical drives to be CD/DVD burners, rather than blu-ray optical drives because the Apple "SuperDrive" does not play blu-rays.

I also took the liberty of tossing in Windows 7 Ultimate which is $320 at retail at Best Buy and an approximately $100-200 motherboard since that seems to be low to middle end. I priced most everything at Newegg, but the $1900-2000 is really dependent on the person building and their preferences (as is exemplified by the motherboard price range - some even go up to $300-400+). I tried to go more in the middle, so my estimate could be over *or* below what it would actually cost someone to build a like computer.

Now, partly what caused the huge difference in price between the PC and Mac examples in the photo, were the Apple monitors included in the Mac price, which are $1000/each. I strongly doubt that they compare to the Acer 27" LED monitors, however. The resolution for an Apple Display is 2560 x 1440, and it has a built in camera and speakers. The cheapest like monitor I was able to find that was a 27" LED with the same resolution was an HP monitor for $650, but it neither included the built in camera or speakers. Dell has a like monitor, but also without the camera and speakers, for the same price as Apple and Samsung's version (also without speakers and camera) is, at least on one site I found, $1200.

The Apple computer price with the exact specs listed in the photo, but without the monitors or AppleCare is $3394. That's still, of course, a huge difference in price from both my PC estimate and the photo's - nearly double in fact - but it's not nearly as drastic, which I guess is the point I'm trying to make in regards to the misleading nature of the photo.

Now, while I personally think it's stupid to purchase a Mac desktop for just pleasure, unless perhaps you're into video/photo editing or other artistic outlets, because of the price difference, I don't think it's stupid to purchase Apple in general. As previously stated, their products do tend to be more expensive than like products from other makers, but they have many perks that can be, imo, worth the extra expense. I personally wouldn't trade my Macbook Pro for anything - the conveniences of a Mac are worth the extra $200-300 I paid for this computer compared to a like Windows machine at the time. And, tbh, I like this computer a lot better than the nearly $2000 Dell laptop I had prior to this, so price, obviously, is not directly proportional to likability and usability.

" expensive than non-Mac products. That's nearly a given"

Why would I pay 2-3x the amount for the same hardware?

"it would come out to approximately $1900-2000. This does not include the monitors, speakers, or warranty"

Wherever you are getting your prices from is ripping you off. Besides, your price shows its still cheaper then a mac, by a large margin.

"I also took the liberty of tossing in Windows 7 Ultimate which is $320"

Never buy stuff from best buy. $99 from new egg

http://www.newegg.com/Product...

"Apple monitors included in the Mac price, which are $1000/each. I strongly doubt that they compare to the Acer 27" LED monitors, however. The resolution for an Apple Display is 2560 x 1440, and it has a built in camera and speakers. The cheapest like monitor I was able to find that was a 27" LED with the same resolution was an HP monitor for $650, but it neither included the built in camera or speakers."

Why would you spend that much on a monitor? Thats retarded.

My monitor is 44" cost $400 is hooked up to a surround sound system ($150) and my webcam cost $50. My setup is better and cheaper all around.

" perhaps you're into video/photo editing or other artistic outlets, because of the price difference,"

That's a myth that they any better at those things.

"ike this computer a lot better than the nearly $2000 Dell laptop I had prior to this

Two things.

1. Why would you spend $2000 on a laptop?
2. Why would you by from dell?

Not everything, or necessarily even most things, from Apple are 2-3x as expensive. In terms of individual hardware, yes, the optical drives are like 4 times as much, but the hard drives are middle-priced compared to internal hard drives priced on Newegg. The graphics card, which Apple sells for $250, ranges from $230-270 from other vendors. Etc, etc. Altogether, though, yeah, the machine is nearly double the price of a like home-built desktop. Some people are willing to pay more because their field of work or study nearly requires a Mac to stay competitive. Others are willing to pay more because they love the software aspects of Apple. Me, personally, while I do love iOS, I would never pay that much for a desktop. It would be better to have a home-built desktop and just load iOS onto it.

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I priced on Newegg and used Fry's occasionally as a price comparative. Here are the approximate PC hardware prices:

Intel Xeon 4-core 3.2ghz sandy bridge: $240 on Newegg, just checked Amazon and it's $230 with Prime. The cheapest from the other merchants on Amazon was $205, then $220, and the rest are $230 or higher (most are above $240).

2 sticks for 4GB DDR3 1333 Mhz RAM: an average of $20-25/each. I low-balled it at $20, for a total of $40.

4 x 1TB 7200rpm SATA 3GB/s internal hard drives: $93/each on Newegg for a total of $372.

2 x Radeon HD6950 w/ 1GB of onboard RAM: $250/each, total $500. This is an outdated video card, but according to bit-tech.com, approximate cost is, or was, $265. Another website had the retail price as $270.

2 x CD- and DVD-R drives: $20/each, total $40.

Motherboard: Running price for decent motherboards these days are, on average, between $100-200. There are some that are slightly less expensive and others that are $300-400 , as I had stated in my original response.

Mouse: I low-balled at $30. Most gaming mice are about double this, sometimes more. The Apple Magic Mouse, which is pretty nifty with it's multi-touch technology, is $70. A normal Apple mouse is $50, which is stupid.

Keyboard: $20. Some are more expensive, but I think most people can find a decent wireless keyboard at retail cost for $20-30. Apple's wireless keyboard is $70.

Power Supply: I think I low-balled this at $60. Most likely with all this crap you would need a better supply and thus price would go up.

Case: I think I also under estimated this at $80. I mean, yes, you can get a cheap case for $50-80 bucks, but a nice looking case, especially with the lights, is likely more. I've seen many nice ones for $120 .

Windows 7 Ultimate: As you know I had originally priced it at $320, but the cheapest I was able to find when I did just a general search was $290 on Newegg. Your link is for Windows Home Premium Service Pack 1 OEM, which is *not* the same as Windows 7 Ultimate Retail. OEM does not give you the same license as the full retail copy.

Miscellaneous expenses: $50. I allotted a little margin error and some tweaking room.

I just re-added everything and I did, apparently add in correctly yesterday. Instead of $1900-2000 (dependent on motherboard price range), the approximate total is actually $1850-1950. Subtract the $30 difference from that if you buy the OS from Newegg instead of Best Buy, then you are looking at $1820-1920.

EDIT: I forgot to take into account the cheapest Amazon processor price (currently $205). Once that's taken into account it drops the price range to $1790-1890.

This of course does not include a monitor or speakers or a video camera.

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I agree it's retarded to spend that much on a monitor. I can buy an awesome TV for $1000. But, a like monitor at that cost is not an "Apple thing", which was my point. The market value for a monitor of those specifications, regardless of brand, is just freaking expensive. Apple's happens to have more perks considering it has built in features and, at $1000, it sits cozily in the middle of the market range, considering the majority of the 27" LED monitors with 2560 x 1440 resolution range from $750-1200.

In regards to Macs and the art niche: It's not to say that non-Macs can't do those things well, but the professionals and their employers and schools, as a general rule, appear to prefer Macs for those types of things. I don't do that sort of stuff, so I really don't know about it and can't vouch for the efficacy of Macs in those fields, but I'm guessing if the professionals prefer them, there must be a reason why.

And, lol, in regards to my laptop. It's a laptop that's 4 years old I think. It's the Dell XPS 16 and I upgraded the crap out of that thing. At the time, the parts were expensive, especially because it's a laptop. I think the full retail cost after taxes and shipping was about $1800. My father works for Dell so I get a discount for shopping there, which is why I bought a Dell. His discount is only 17%, but it brought the laptop down to $1500. I had had an Alienware prior to that (was saving to buy it prior to Dell's acquisition of the brand if I remember correctly, but I got around to actually finalizing the purchase when it was already a Dell product), which was even *more* expensive, merely because of the brand, and it was a piece of crap. Died about a year and half after I got it. My Dell is still working pretty well though. =)

"If you can't find it cheaper when I gave you a link for it at $99 I'm not going to take you seriously at the other prices."

And as I had already explained, the prices of $290 and $320 were both for the Windows 7 ULTIMATE FULL RETAIL, while the link you posted was for Windows 7 HOME EDITION SP1 OEM. They are two completely different products. I explained that in detail in my previous response, so I would appreciate you not getting rude with me simply because you couldn't grasp the difference.


"Yes, I found the 6950 for $194, you need to research better."

Are you talking about this? http://www.newegg.com/Product...

It's not the same product as the one listed in the photo comparative you posted. It has more RAM actually, 2GB rather than 1GB, for a cheaper price, which is good, but I was going based on exact specs from the photo, as I, again, had already said.

Even if it were the same, I think it's ridiculous to quibble (and in such a superior and condescending tone to boot) about 2 x $55 when I actually took the time to compare the two systems more accurately, while you yourself went straight to posting a relatively misleading photograph without thought of accuracy. If you are going to feel righteous about belittling Apple products and consumers, at least do it right, or as close to it as is reasonable.

My numbers don't change the fact that an Apple desktop is still ridiculously more expensive, but there's obviously a huge difference between $3400 and $7000. Now, all that said, it's important to compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges, as previously noted, so next time you post a comparative, perhaps you should take your own advice and remember to research better yourself. Otherwise, you make yourself out to be a hypocrite.

As I had previously stated, my numbers are estimates. I'm not going to waste my time scouring the internet to save $55 on an imaginary computer that I'm breaking down for a SodaHead discussion. I will, though, check some common websites for the closest match I can find to what was listed in the picture. Since the hard drive was listed specifically, I did a search for that *specific* hard drive. Did I see the other hard drive that you posted for $194 while I researched? Yes, actually, I did, but since it was not the *exact* hard drive used in the picture example, I ignored it.



You seem to be completely missing the point about the monitors. It's not about that you prefer this or that; the point is, once again, that they aren't overpriced for what they are, especially because they do have additional technology built in that other like monitors do not. Whether you like built in cameras and speakers or not doesn't change the fact that that technology costs money and that cost + profit will be added to the base value of the monitor, thus increasing its cost to the consumer.

Whether someone needs Ultimate or not is not up to you. Personally, I went with Ultimate for my own machines. Regardless of that, the OEM locks you onto one computer and is non-transferable to other machines and many people buying a product off the shelf would likely not go for that in case they switch computers for any reason. Home Premium (retail, not OEM) on Newegg is $180. At Frys, it's $200.

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"Oh wait, more price raising to fit your argument."

Now you are just being ridiculous. As I've said SEVERAL times, I was going with the exact product listed when it was listed. Since 2GB does not equal 1GB, and the hard drive listed in the photo was the Radeon HD 6950 1GB, I went with the one listed.

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I feel like a broken record because you apparently do not read and absorb what you read. As I stated earlier, the photo, and thus you since you posted the photo, was not comparing apples to apples in regards to comparing a Mac desktop hardware to a home-built non-Mac desktop hardware. It was NOT AT ALL used in regards to exchanging one Intel processor for another Intel processor, etc. If that were the case I could have gotten the price down to closer to $1000 if I could pick any piece of hardware I wanted.

My point with that phrasing was that the photo was not comparing like products and I listed at least 2 examples as to why: 1) the PC hardware list included a blu-ray player while the Mac desktop did not have that upgraded optical drive (this is a benefit for PC, of course, and it would lead to a decrease in overall cost when you took that into account) and 2) the Apple Displays do not compare whatsoever to the Acer monitors used for the PC (thus what I said about comparing apples to oranges). On top of that, there's about $1500 that's uncounted for in the supposed cost of an Apple desktop (if you don't account for AppleCare, because I did not account for any sort of extended warranty with the PC).

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Yeah, I remember that there are two video cards. Hence: "I think it's ridiculous to quibble...about 2 x $55 when I..." I didn't see the need to repeat it again a few sentences later.

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When you type in "Radeon HD 6950 1GB" into the Newegg search bar, this is what pops up ($250): http://www.newegg.com/Product...

When you type in "Radeon HD 6950 1GB" into Google search and then click on the only link to Newegg on the first page, you get this discontinued product: http://www.newegg.com/Product...

Only link on page 2 of the Google search results leads you to another discontinued product page: http://www.newegg.com/Product...

Click on the Amazon link on page two and you get a product that brand new is $475: http://www.amazon.com/XFX-Rad...

Search Amazon directly and the 7th result has a listing price of $250. The others are all higher than this, or the 2GB version, which I've already explained several times why I didn't used it.

And, actually, I just saw it now that I've wasted about 20 minutes looking for the cheapest price for this stupid video card, there's an MSI version that's $209 on Amazon (search result #16 if you search what I've been searching in the quotes).

Guru3d lists its retail price at $260. Comments on anandtech discuss its price as "a little north of $250". Hardware Canucks lists it as $259. I think I may have had other examples in my original comment.

So, yeah, that's scouring the internet. I've searched through, now, about 15 different websites and have gone through several different search results. More work than should be warranted for this discussion, especially considering it's just 1 part.

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When I was talking about hard drives in the previous response I actually meant to type video card. I have no idea why I mixed up the words, but it should have been obvious that I was talking about the video card you posted for $194 considering I was discussing that item and price.

And, once AGAIN (please read, seriously, this is getting old): "... the hard drives are middle-priced compared to internal hard drives priced on Newegg..."

I blatantly wrote in that the hard drive price of $93/each was middle priced and that there were other HDDs that were cheaper and others that were more expensive. I picked a middle ground one for the purpose of being average, rather than cheap. It's for that reason that I gave a range of $100-200 for the motherboard, because, while there are cheaper motherboards, the average price for a decent motherboard is between $100-200 depending on someone's preferences and needs.

I even wrote in the FIRST response: "I tried to go more in the middle, so my estimate could be over *or* below what it would actually cost someone to build a like computer."

So, you may have saved $373 by preferring the cheapest options, but I can guarantee that there are many others that would spend $373 and more above my middle ground estimate.

The point of me comparing prices was not to get the cheapest price possible. It was to see how accurate the price listed for the PC was, thus the need to use the EXACT video cards, which nullifies your $110 saving. The middle ground price for the hard drives was done with the intention of remaining average and there was a disclaimer that I was doing this for this purpose. The OS is the only thing that's completely arguable. If you are so desperate to save $200 from a hypothetical OS, go for it. I personally think that OEM OS licenses are retarded, but that's just me, and I think it's absurd that you are arguing about it considering I opening stated I took that liberty when configuring the computer, but that other users may end up with a cheaper or more expensive machine depending on their preferences.

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I understand that no one would buy those. It's ridiculous to spend that much on a monitor. But, it's for that reason that I said that it wasn't accurate to compare an Apple Display to the monitors that someone building their own computers would buy (and many, and probably most, Mac users wouldn't buy those monitors either...). They aren't comparable products because of their resolutions. An Apple Display's resolution is so above and beyond most normal monitors market-wise that it's unrealistic to compare it to the average monitor like the photo did. It's why I made the comparison of that monitor to other monitors with that resolution and noted that price-wise, it's in the correct market range.