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Judge Rules: Family’s $80 Million Gold Coin Collection Belongs to the Government. Right or wrong?

John "By God" American 2012/09/09 04:55:12
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10 rare gold coins worth roughly $80 million has been ruled on and belong to the U.S. government, not the family that possessed them, said a judge, according to ABC News.

Joan Langbord and her family, in 2003
opened a safety deposit box that belonged to Langbord’s father,
Philadelphia coin dealer Israel Switt, they found a valuable coin
collection. When they asked the Philadelphia Mint to authenticate the
collection, the coins were then seized without compensation and taken to
Fort Knox.


The 1933 Saint-Gaudens double
eagle is “one of the most sought-after rarities in history,” according
to Courthouse News. Originally valued at $20 each, one owned by King
Farouk of Egypt reportedly sold for as much as $7.5 million at a
Sotheby’s auction in 2002.



This gold is not stolen gold, or robbed
from a bank…. The government said “Hey our bank buddies are failing so
we need all the people who own gold to sell it to us at a % of what its
really worth”


This should be an eye opener for anyone
“Investing” in gold. This is not the first time the government has
stolen gold from its people in our nations history and it wont be the
last.


The federal government keeps pushing and
pushing by violating the Constitution, and by making up laws as they go
along. If there coins were stolen from the government, fine, but I
seriously doubt that’s the case.


The Langbords unsuccessfully
sued the government in 2011, alleging that the coins are rightfully
theirs, and now they have lost the appeal.


Jacqueline Romero, assistant U.S. attorney
in Philadelphia, explained that the coins legally belonged to the
government after Franklin Delano Roosevelt ordered citizens to exchange
their gold for cash in an effort to keep the banks afloat during the
Great Depression.


“Those coins were all in a vault and were supposed to be melted,” she asserted.



Apparently the government ‘meticulously’
tracked the paper-work, and I imagine they meticulously track it about
as well as they do veteran’s military records when they say a fire
destroyed a building that had your records in it.


When we are careening toward bankruptcy any
asset the Feds can lay there hands on is fair game! We are also in the
era of multimillion dollar fines. Just a little redistribution of
wealth! After all why should anyone have an 80 million dollar asset?


The family maintains that in
another seizure of the valuable coin, the government split the proceeds
with the original owner after it sold for $7.59 million in 2002, and
that the coins escaped the Mint legitimately through a “window of
opportunity” between March 15 and April 5, 1933, the Huffington Post
relates.


However, U.S. District Judge Legrome Davis
Jr. wrote in his decision: “The Mint meticulously tracked the ‘33 Double
Eagles, and the records show that no such transaction occurred…What’s
more, this absence of a paper trail speaks to criminal intent. If
whoever took or exchanged the coins thought he was doing no wrong, we
would expect to see some sort of documentation reflecting the
transaction, especially considering how carefully and methodically the
Mint accounted for the ‘33 Double Eagles.”


“Nobody witnessed the disappearance of the
10 coins, but the jury could – and did – properly infer criminal
intent,” Davis added.


Barry Berke, the family’s attorney, concluded for ABCNews.com: “This is a case that raises many novel legal questions, including the limits on the government’s power to confiscate property.”



These government leaches could have gotten
taxes on the proceeds when these coins were sold .. but that isn’t
enough for them — they don’t want a cut of what you have … THEY WANT IT
ALL!


And it all started with an unconstitutional executive order by FDR that was never challenged.


The judge enforced an unconstitutional and
unjust law. We all know what the GOV will do with the money anyway–SPEND
IT! Anyone think they‘ll invest it somehow for America’s good or even
use it to help pay of some of the DEBT it has incurred?!?

Read More: http://resistance.ning.com/forum/topic/show?id=260...

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  • momma-on-the-hit-list 2012/09/11 21:21:43
    Wrong.
    momma-on-the-hit-list
    +1
    Well previous presidents made sure that you remain a slave, I say it belongs to the people in the Langbord family. I thought Ft Knox was emptied long ago? what are they trying to fill it up with real coins now?
  • Jackie G - Poker Playing Pa... 2012/09/11 19:14:52
    Wrong.
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    +2
    The beloved FDR did this and people lost their assets then "for the good of the government" - just more of the same, government confiscation of private property for some undefined greater good. It stinks to high heaven
  • teachaman 2012/09/11 18:51:01
    Wrong.
    teachaman
    +2
    and people wonder why those that can afford to do so open Swiss bank accounts and store valuables / cash out of the country! ... this is ARMED ROBBERY on the part of the Federal Government!
  • frank 2012/09/11 18:38:18
    Wrong.
    frank
    +3
    Looks like the first step in taking away the rights of American citizens
  • Frank 2012/09/11 00:38:22
    None of the above
    Frank
    +3
    When Obama is done people will be hiding bread in their safety deposit box...
  • D D 2012/09/10 09:22:15
    Wrong.
    D D
    +2
    This was wrong to do. I am not surprised at all. If the gov has what you have, they can take it. People think that because they still believe in our rights etc that the gov does too. They are mistaken.
  • mwg0735 2012/09/10 02:33:30
  • retiredingeorgia 2012/09/10 02:13:41
    Wrong.
    retiredingeorgia
    +2
    So much for trying to be an honest citizen.

    Kinda makes me glad I don't have any gold in my teeth.
    gold teeth
  • D D retired... 2012/09/10 09:15:43
    D D
    +2
    It is so gross
  • momma-o... retired... 2012/09/11 21:26:14
    momma-on-the-hit-list
    +2
    He better paint them white or the SS troupers will come take them.
  • Luv♥Luv 2012/09/10 01:36:58
  • Ericka 2012/09/10 00:55:25
    Wrong.
    Ericka
    +4
    So I guess this is like eminent domain, where they seize houses? I think FDR screwed people back then, but Obama is screwing them now by not righting the wrong. The right thing would have been to not do it at all, but the *relevant* thing now is to do the right thing and return the property to the rightful owners, who are NOT the government. This is horse crap, and yet another thing that is wrong with the current administration and the system.
  • Rick Armin Ericka 2012/09/10 02:22:21
    Rick Armin
    +3
    Ericka, I make no friends when I say this, but the current administration be damned. We haven't had an American in the White House in at least a century.
  • Ericka Rick Armin 2012/09/10 02:24:26
    Ericka
    +2
    I can respect that answer :)
  • GettingBarried 2012/09/10 00:54:12
    Right.
    GettingBarried
    +1
    If none of the coins were ever legally released, any that show up must have been obtained illegally. Those people were foolish to ask the government for assistance for authentication. The internet has been around a tad longer than 2003 and it would have taken about 30 seconds to realize they were something not to be taken lightly.
  • Ericka Getting... 2012/09/10 02:38:56
    Ericka
    +2
    They absolutely were legally released originally - the Federal government demanded people turn over their gold to "redistribute" the wealth/create welfare. Granted, people were in dire straits during the Depression, but that doesn't give the Federal government the right to take from others what is rightfully theirs. How much good did it really do anyone to do so, either? People still suffered and did without, regardless. It's just another example of governmental fiscal mismanagement. It is also NOT conclusive that the coins were illegal in the first place. Other people out of the country could have owned them prior to the decree, and they could have made it back in circulation in the States after the fact, at least hypothetically.

    Let's look at it from a different angle:

    In the military, if you are given a direct order to shoot civilians, does that make the "law" just? What if you disobey orders, anyway, to spare women and children? Does that make the law any more just because it was the law, and you disobeyed it, and are therefore "wrong?" Sounds pretty bassackwards to me.

    Besides, the supposed "need" for the gold to be confiscated ended about 80 years ago. Does that give the Federal government the right to "re-confiscate" it again? I think not.
  • Getting... Ericka 2012/09/10 03:00:46
    GettingBarried
    No they were absolutely not legally released. The ones that were legally released were all accounted for. Any others out there would have been out there illegally. The government never relinquished ownership of those 10 coins.

    Your example of military orders is not relevant as none of these coins were in the public's hands to be demanded back by the government. Other gold coins, yes; not these.

    Arguing the validity of the confiscations is an whole other discussion.
  • Ericka Getting... 2012/09/10 04:35:02
    Ericka
    +1
    The validity of the confiscations is entirely relevant. Otherwise why would we even be having this discussion?

    facepalm

    LOL...serious.
  • John "B... Getting... 2012/09/10 04:59:39
    John "By God" American
    +3
    The government accounted for all of the released coins? I suppose the gov't could never make a "mistake", could it....
  • Ericka John "B... 2012/09/10 05:21:09
    Ericka
    +1
    Nah...that "never" happens. I wonder how many were actually minted, anyway. If there were a lot, it's entirely plausible they missed a few.

    In any case, I get the feeling we're both trying to play raquetball with a curtain - nothing is getting lobbed back at us anymore and I think they quit the match.
  • Getting... Ericka 2012/09/10 16:26:29
    GettingBarried
    Upwards of half a million of these coins were struck. None were released. Two were sent to the US Numismatic somethingorother. That's it. Any that show up outside of the US Mint must have been stolen. Curtain that. It's easy to look this stuff up. Try not being so obtuse.
  • Ericka Getting... 2012/09/11 04:28:29
    Ericka
    +1
    Okeydoke - you found information...good for you. I was commenting on the post and the related article. I don't have time to research this crap as much, nor to check the validity of YOUR statements, either, because I'm too busy working, raising a family, and researching for college, not to mention an hour commute each way to work and any errands. If I get a few spare minutes to socialize here, that's my enjoyment time to unwind.

    Still no reason to throw around insults.
  • Ericka Ericka 2012/09/11 04:29:26
  • John "B... Ericka 2012/09/11 12:59:02
    John "By God" American
    +2
    An hour commute on top of all that and still keep a sunny disposition? Kudo's to you, Ericka! I'd be homicidal...
  • Ericka John "B... 2012/09/12 08:45:00
    Ericka
    +1
    If I didn't laugh a lot of this stuff off - especially SodaHead - I just might be homicidal. I'm not, but I *might* be :D

    The fact is, I just get on here to have fun from time to time. I couldn't give half a flying crap about $8M coins, since none of them are in MY pocket...lol. Most of the things on here, I feel the same about, and it really isn't worth letting some sock or another get me all riled up over...essentially Nothing. If they choose to get all bent out of shape, that's their problem, but I don't have to :) It's all about controling your "child-impulses."
  • Getting... Ericka 2012/09/11 13:21:37
    GettingBarried
    Waah! I see how it works. You were the one to throw insults around. Can dish it but can't take it...gotcha!

    You have time enough to come here and make smarmy comments but not enough time to google up 1933 double eagle and read the first response. Literally took me 2 minutes to brush up on this stuff as I was only vaguely familiar with it.
  • Ericka Getting... 2012/09/12 08:20:13
    Ericka
    And yet you still ignore the possibility they could have made a mistake in releasing some. Another source said 20 made it out and this family had 10. Another 2 (YOU, yourself, said) were sent to...how did you put it?

    Oh yeah...

    "the US Numismatic somethingorother" (and I directly quote you).

    How precise you are in your quest for knowledge.

    The fact of the matter is, this really isn't important enough an issue for me to get excited about, or even care much at all about. I have too many other things going on. But apparently, for you, it is.

    If you mean the "raquetball with a curtain" comment...if somoene stirs something up and then goes AWOL, then what else would you call it? Is it really even worth talking to dead air? That's not an insult...that's an attempt at good time management.

    don t want none don t start none
  • Getting... Ericka 2012/09/12 12:57:25
    GettingBarried
    The government stated unequivocally that none were released through legitimate means. There is no room for grey here. The 2 sent to the US Numismatic somethingorother is one gov't agency giving 2 coins to another government agency. Those 2 coins have been displayed repeatedly over the years.

    AWOL in this case is midnight. Funny that you can go through your laundry list of how busy you are but I go "AWOL". It was insulting.
  • Getting... John "B... 2012/09/10 16:24:14
    GettingBarried
    I am afraid I misspoke. None of the 1933 double eagles were released by the mint...none. Any that show up have literally been stolen from the government.
  • John "B... Getting... 2012/09/10 19:21:38
    John "By God" American
    +1
    Stolen from the government... Ok, were they offered a reward for finding these stolen treasures?
  • Getting... John "B... 2012/09/10 19:39:00
    GettingBarried
    How often do you reward someone that steals? As I said, it would have taken about 30 seconds to get an idea what she had when she looked these coins in 2003 simply by googling them up. Her father (while it can't be proved specifically) is likely the person that fronted these coins from the insider that swiped them. Apparently the CIA reached that conclusion but could not prove it. He knew they were illegal to have. She should have done cursory research to realize they were illegal to have. Instead she wanted provenance to reap millions. She was just plain stupid.
  • John "B... Getting... 2012/09/11 13:01:22 (edited)
    John "By God" American
    +2
    Likely... Again, dealing in supposition with an issue that is no longer illegal. I do agree she was stupid, but for far different reasons than yours...
    Let me ask you this, if they passed a law legalizing bank robbery, would the government continue investigating past robberies, or would they prosecute admitted bank robbers?
  • Getting... John "B... 2012/09/11 13:33:41
    GettingBarried
    You are talking about two different issues. When the government "took" all the gold back, people were compensated for what they turned in with other currency. Exceptions were made. In the case of the 1933 double eagles, there was actually a window of about 2 weeks where people could have legitimately obtained these coins (collectors were allowed to keep a certain amount) before they were melted down. None were released. This is not supposition. It is documented.

    See I think the problem is that people look at this story through today's eyes and try to offer other scenarios to justify their positions. The reality of the times was that gold coins were simply currency. The price of gold was pegged to specific amounts. For quite some time it was pegged at $20 per ounce and so $20 gold coins merely represented an ounce of gold in the form of legitimate, recognized currency. In 1933 FDR altered that pegged value to $35.00 per ounce. I think that was the reason those coins had to be melted down.
  • John "B... Getting... 2012/09/12 05:15:10
    John "By God" American
    +1
    It isn't two different issues. If I remember correctly, you said the Wiki artilce said the judge based his decision on the Mint kept meticulous records so they must have been taken by a clerk. Theft is still theft so my example applies.
  • Getting... John "B... 2012/09/12 13:00:50
    GettingBarried
    The government kept records good enough to know that no coins were released to anyone; however meticulous that is.

    Please elaborate on your scenario. How does bank robberies equate to these coins? Do we really want to get into a discussion based upon a law that will never exist? I understand a need to back ones' position but this is really reaching.
  • John "B... Getting... 2012/09/12 14:43:16
    John "By God" American
    You're sidestepping, GB. It's just a hypothetical of a situation that did occur. FDR outlawed owning gold, so, if at the time you were caught with gold, it was a crime. That law was repealed. Owning gold is not illegal anymore. These coins were no longer government property. There is no proof of any transaction and there is no proof that there wasn't a transaction. The burden of proof lies on the government and they have no proof one way or the other. Thus, the coins were in the hands of private citizens and they were confiscated illegally, again.
  • Getting... John "B... 2012/09/12 16:55:08
    GettingBarried
    Ahh I understand. I was not side stepping. I was looking for more info as to where you are coming from. Owning gold was outlawed indeed. But, there were exceptions. For example, if gold was an integral ingredient in making automobile motors (just an example but you get the idea), individuals and companies were allowed to have gold under such circumstances. Gold coins were allowed to be in private ownership as long as they remained collection pieces (in limited amounts if I recall correctly). In the case of these particular coins, none were released in any way, shape or form to the public. None! Any that showed up in public would therefore be either counterfeit or stolen. There are no other options in this scenario. If these coins were found in a basement of some house that you just bought and had no prior connection to their arrival in that location, you'd probably be rewarded for turning them in as you were not part of the caper. In the case of these particular coins, this woman's father was part of a caper, stealing these coins from the government. The government contends there has been only one "transaction" and that being the pair of coins sent to another government agency. Anything beyond that is counterfeit or stolen. These coins were the government's coin...
    Ahh I understand. I was not side stepping. I was looking for more info as to where you are coming from. Owning gold was outlawed indeed. But, there were exceptions. For example, if gold was an integral ingredient in making automobile motors (just an example but you get the idea), individuals and companies were allowed to have gold under such circumstances. Gold coins were allowed to be in private ownership as long as they remained collection pieces (in limited amounts if I recall correctly). In the case of these particular coins, none were released in any way, shape or form to the public. None! Any that showed up in public would therefore be either counterfeit or stolen. There are no other options in this scenario. If these coins were found in a basement of some house that you just bought and had no prior connection to their arrival in that location, you'd probably be rewarded for turning them in as you were not part of the caper. In the case of these particular coins, this woman's father was part of a caper, stealing these coins from the government. The government contends there has been only one "transaction" and that being the pair of coins sent to another government agency. Anything beyond that is counterfeit or stolen. These coins were the government's coins and the government never relinquished ownership. Well, the did in that all half million 1933 double eagles were to be melted down except for the pair saved for posterity. Just because it is now legal to own gold does not excuse the act of thievery done on this woman's father's part. The only reason there is litigation is because of the value as collectibles. As would be the case with any impossible-to-get collectibles, the value skyrockets. Any other gold coins don't collectively add up to the value of a 1933 double eagle. So, in the end, it's all about money as far as this woman is concerned. If the government does not melt these down, then it should pay her the $80 million.
    (more)
  • John "B... Getting... 2012/09/12 17:22:37
    John "By God" American
    So, once again, there is no record of what transpired with these coins. There were ten coins involved. That amount alone strikes up questions. If they were in fact stolen, why did they chose ten and not eight or twelve or five. That sounds more like a specific purchase than a theft...
  • Getting... John "B... 2012/09/12 17:53:48
    GettingBarried
    Whatever it sounds like is not really relevant. The theory goes that the insider that made the swipe switched legitimate coins in for the 1933's destined for melting. Hell, this woman's father could have provided the insider with the switched gold coins. There is no guarantee that it was only 10 coins. Although, when it comes to stealing, it won't be an armful. Since no 'specific purchases' ever occurred, it has to be some other illegal option. Specific purchases might also have some kind of provenance in the form of a bill of sale from the government. Really, if there was a legitimate sale, something like that would be on record with both the purchaser and the seller.
  • John "B... Getting... 2012/09/12 18:10:11
    John "By God" American
    +1
    It's been 80 yrs. There wouldn't necessarily be record on either side. Furthermore, you chastise my response by saying it doesn't matter what it sounds like and then turn around and describe the "theory" of the theft???? You must be a government employee...

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