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Have you chosen the correct religion?

Daring Blasphemer BN-0 2012/04/26 17:47:28
I go to Salt Lake City at least once a year on business. On one occasion we had a few hours after the last press check, so we went to Temple Square to tour the visitor centers and to visit the beautiful meeting house. As you may know, you are not allowed in the Temple as a tourist or even as a mormon without a strict regiment including two face to face 'worthiness' interviews with your Bishop and stake president. I am not going to cover this entire process, but I encourage you to look it up. It is…interesting.

I f you are ever in SLC, I highly recommend the tour of Temple Square. The visitor centers are small museums and the Temple is quite impressive. While on the tour I was accosted (in a very nice Mormon way) by no less than six pretty young girls, two at a time, from all over the world, eager to explain their beliefs and answer questions.

While enjoying the amazing miniature of ancient Jerusalem I was asked by the last two of these if I was active in my church in Tucson. After explaining that I was not LDS, they became even more attentive. They are imperturbable and fairly knowledgeable about their religion. I eventually asked them the same question I ask of any believer I am given the opportunity to speak with. It is not a very profound question, but I have found it unanswerable. So, I have decided to turn to the SH community.

Religion is very regional. The vast majority of people are born into a given faith, they are raised in that faith and most stay with that ingrained 'choice' their entire lives. Some do choose another sect of the same basic faith, but few change dramatically. I do, with hope, acknowledge a growing number who are falling out of faith completely, but they are a tiny minority. If you are born in Israel, you are most likely Jewish, if born in the rest of the Middle East you are most likely Muslim. If born in Italy or Mexico—Catholic, China—Buddhist, etc. There are obviously exceptions, but most of those exceptions are persecuted by the dominant Religion of that region and none the lesspeople born to those religions generally remain there.

With this in mind and the realization that all these people believe at least as much in their religion as you do. They are as convinced of miracles and signs that prove their religion superior and true as you are. They most likely dismiss the words of your Holy Book as you do theirs. They may even see you as an enemy of their religion because you are an infidel just as you may feel the same way about their 'choice'. Their faith is just as strong as yours because they have seen the wrath and warmth or their deity just as you have. Understanding this, my question is as stated above. Without you sacred text, because any proof from there will be dismissed out of hand by anyone not sharing you belief, how do you know you are correct?
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  • flaca BN-0 2012/05/28 23:43:21
    flaca BN-0
    +4
    You don't. Most religious people do not research other religions. Most people follow the religion their parents did. This is fact. It just goes to show how easily people fall into their religions and never search other religions for what appeals to them. I can't wait til people wake up and admit it.

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  • Tyrocker 2012/07/07 21:39:16
    Tyrocker
    You can ask the Lord. You could read the Book of Mormon and attend the LDS Church and pray about it. You seem to know a lot about the Church. Why not go, if you haven't, and see how you feel.
  • twocrows 2012/05/31 05:49:06
    twocrows
    maybe I'm the exception that proves the rule. I most decidedly am not still involved in the faith in which I grew up [Southern Baptist]. I think my fatal mistake was studying history and discovering what organized religion has done down through the centuries. and I thought, 'there's got to be something better than this.' so I set out to find it - and found spiritualism or reincarnation or SOMETHING - and it's not Baptist or even, in the strict sense of the word, Christianity. and it's not organized, either.

    yes, I still 'believe' that there is something there. the best description I've found yet [the one that fits for me - and I don't require anyone else to accept it] is a “fluctuating sea of virtual energies,” or the “vaster, more fundamental universe that is beyond the universe we inhabit.” as described by Ervin Laszlo in 'Science and the Akashic Field'. when I think of 'God' - - that's what I think of.
    and I think it is capable of uncomplicated self-love. and we are it and it is us - which is why it loves us unconditionally.

    and let's face it - - every Baptist I know would run screaming away from me convinced I was a heretic. but there's the rub. I like being a heretic. :)

    I go into the whole thing in exhaustive detail here:
    http://twocrows1023.wordpress...
  • psychobabe 2012/05/29 00:25:04
    psychobabe
    +1
    Good thread.
  • flaca BN-0 2012/05/28 23:43:21
    flaca BN-0
    +4
    You don't. Most religious people do not research other religions. Most people follow the religion their parents did. This is fact. It just goes to show how easily people fall into their religions and never search other religions for what appeals to them. I can't wait til people wake up and admit it.
  • sue 2012/05/23 05:25:31
    sue
    +3
    I am one of those people who has not decided on one religion. I was born into a Catholic family. At age 7, in preparing for my First Communion, I asked my mother why we had to confess our sins to a priest rather than directly to God. The questions kept coming and my mom grew increasingly irritated. The final straw was when I was preparing for confirmation and they gave us a questionnaire. "Which is more important in your life: family, friends, school, God." I made the mistake of answering the questions truthfully as the 13-year-old I was, and my mom ended up forcing the priest to let me take it again "and this time answer the questions RIGHT!"

    After that, I was certain that I was an atheist. If there couldn't be open discussion about the beliefs a group is supposed to hold -- even within the group -- then it must all be made up. Right? And with the certainty that only a teenager can have, I proceeded accordingly. While attending university, I would listen to evangelists that visited. Their strange analogies -- lumping video games and rock and roll music together with homosexuality and murder as some kind of equal "sins", I became even more convinced that all was made up.

    I was confusing religion with the existence of God, which are two different things. Religions are enti...



    I am one of those people who has not decided on one religion. I was born into a Catholic family. At age 7, in preparing for my First Communion, I asked my mother why we had to confess our sins to a priest rather than directly to God. The questions kept coming and my mom grew increasingly irritated. The final straw was when I was preparing for confirmation and they gave us a questionnaire. "Which is more important in your life: family, friends, school, God." I made the mistake of answering the questions truthfully as the 13-year-old I was, and my mom ended up forcing the priest to let me take it again "and this time answer the questions RIGHT!"

    After that, I was certain that I was an atheist. If there couldn't be open discussion about the beliefs a group is supposed to hold -- even within the group -- then it must all be made up. Right? And with the certainty that only a teenager can have, I proceeded accordingly. While attending university, I would listen to evangelists that visited. Their strange analogies -- lumping video games and rock and roll music together with homosexuality and murder as some kind of equal "sins", I became even more convinced that all was made up.

    I was confusing religion with the existence of God, which are two different things. Religions are entirely man-made (and in few cases women-made) constructs. As I grew older I observed a bit more of what the world has to offer. I noticed that religoin makes people feel better about themselves, and gives them goals to work toward in being better people. I see that it gives people a sense of community. I see these as good things. I also saw that in the birth of my kids, they seem like miracles to me. And I see that there are some things in the world that do not seem like they could be complete accidents. The sheer complication of the process of being born seems like it must be guided by more than pure science - a little luck, or a little prayer must help it along. I also believe that people, to a certain degree, reap what they sow. So there is some kind of karma.

    This leaves me with a mix of believing that there is a being or force that is supernatural and guides nature in some way. I obviously cannot return to being Catholic.(They think I'm going to hell for a number of reasons.) I tried the Episcopal Church, because as the US branch of the Anglican Church it's like "Catholic Light". You have the traditions you know, but a lot less guilt. And priests can be women, gay, or married. But, there is still this whole virgin birth to God's son thing, which seems taken straight from Greek/Roman mythology to me. This makes sense and all, given the location of Christianity's development, but still, it doesn't seem of divine origin to me, even though the teachings of Jesus are certainly worth reading and even following. Then I checked out Judaism. The thing I like about it is that everything is open for discussion and interpretation. (A little of this would have gone a long way for me in my youth.) However, there is still the reliance on the Old Testament, which is clearly full of man-made rules that have become less and less relevant over time. None of the Abrahamic religions are particularly worried about treating women as equal partners to men, which the world demonstrates is more important than any of us thought when I was growing up. (Countries with greater participation by women in the economy and politics are more stable and prosperous than ones with less participation, companies with women in leadership are more likely to invest in their communities and less likely to make risky decisions -- some even say the most recent stock market crash could have been avoided if more women had been involved to steer away from risky derivatives. And If you give a family living in poverty additional money, it is more likely spent on the home or the children if you give it to the woman, where the man is more likley to spend it on himself. These are just a few trends.) Plus, why would God intentionally marginalized any of his people, let alone more than half of them?

    So, I am in the middle of no where. I make sure to give thanks for the great life, family, and material comforts I have been given. I make sure to help those less fortunate, and I try to be open to others who are not like me. I think this is what Jesus said, and although I'm not completely in agreement with the Son of God thing, I think his words are wise. I also take some items from Judaism. For example, I try not to engage in or even tolerate gossip. It's important in Judaism, and I think it's important in life (and way harder to do than I would have thought). I haven't yet found a religion that suits me, but I try to be a good person.
    (more)
  • Daring ... sue 2012/05/27 01:07:12
    Daring Blasphemer BN-0
    +1
    I have an acute interest in religion but do not believe. My wife, however, is a believer but is much like yourself in her opinion of organized religion. She has joined and now dragged me to some Unitarian Universalist meetings. They are very a very loose and excepting group. There are several atheists and agnostics, gays are welcomed. They have a short sermon followed by a talk given by a community group.

    I must admit I do not hate it. I have enjoyed the first two visits and the fellowship afterword is great.
  • sue Daring ... 2012/05/27 07:14:36
    sue
    +1
    I just can't be sure. It may be something more like "the force" in Star Wars, or like karma, bt I've been pretty lucky in my life, and I've very thankful for it, and it seems like it can't be totally random (but I don't rule that out either!)

    I think the community part of religion is where it's value lies. Right now, my brother has cancer and his church has had prayer vigils for him, and he has become more active in it since he quite work and started chemotherapy. It makes him feel better, and his "numbers" are looking better. I don't know if that's connected, but him believing it seems to give him a better outlook. So, Yay for his local church, I say! (Also, you can't really beat a church potluck.)
  • sue Daring ... 2012/05/27 07:23:29
    sue
    +2
    I just thought of this day(s) I had once, and thought you would enjoy hearing about it. I work and live in the Middle East. So, I had to go to Morocco once for a week or so. My last day for the trip was Thursday. So, I got up in the morning and attended a Hindu "service". I don't really know why it was on a Thursday, nor do I understand if it's a weekly thing or if it was for a special occasion. One of the consultants working with me was Indian/American and a Hindu, and invited me so I went. It was really mesmerizing with the chanting and the candles/incense, etc. All of the people were equal and sitting on the floor and seemed to not need the book (which was no help to me in Arabic and Hindu!) Somebody played tiny finger simbals to keep the rhythm. It was very relaxing and I can see how people felt a sense of community. THey all had tea afterward.

    THen I went back to the hotel, met another colleague and we went to visit the huge mosque in Casablanca, which holds tens of thousands of people and is rumored to be slowly sinking into the sea. It was beautiful. We walked around in the cool and quiet space and since it's right on the water and is all naturally lit, you can see how people feel spiritual in that space. That night, my flight was at some stupid late time like 4:00 am. ...
    I just thought of this day(s) I had once, and thought you would enjoy hearing about it. I work and live in the Middle East. So, I had to go to Morocco once for a week or so. My last day for the trip was Thursday. So, I got up in the morning and attended a Hindu "service". I don't really know why it was on a Thursday, nor do I understand if it's a weekly thing or if it was for a special occasion. One of the consultants working with me was Indian/American and a Hindu, and invited me so I went. It was really mesmerizing with the chanting and the candles/incense, etc. All of the people were equal and sitting on the floor and seemed to not need the book (which was no help to me in Arabic and Hindu!) Somebody played tiny finger simbals to keep the rhythm. It was very relaxing and I can see how people felt a sense of community. THey all had tea afterward.

    THen I went back to the hotel, met another colleague and we went to visit the huge mosque in Casablanca, which holds tens of thousands of people and is rumored to be slowly sinking into the sea. It was beautiful. We walked around in the cool and quiet space and since it's right on the water and is all naturally lit, you can see how people feel spiritual in that space. That night, my flight was at some stupid late time like 4:00 am. I live in Egypt, so I arrived home in the morning and was on the way from the airport through the streets, which were empty leading up to Friday prayers, and by the time I got home, the noon prayers were starting. My husband is Jewish, so that afternoon, we lit the candles for Sabbath. It's always weird to do that in a Muslim country, because the way you know it's time is that you hear th eIslamic call to prayer. Since I hadn't been to sleep since Wednesday night, it seemed like all one day: Hindu service, huge mosque, noon prayer, Jewish Sabbath. I kind of liked it, although I have never been any of these religions.
    (more)
  • Daring ... sue 2012/05/27 12:57:42
    Daring Blasphemer BN-0
    +1
    I have been lucky in my life, as well, but can not attribute it to anything but that. I believe lucky is the product of design for the most part, but there are plenty of good people who are not as lucky as you or I. There are babies who are killed by their parents. There are children raped by their religious leaders. There can be no God as described in the Abrahamic religions.

    If there is an unseen mover, it cares nothing about our petty existence. Deism was, in my opinion, a bridge for those who lost their faith in a time when that was unacceptable, but if there is a God, that is as close as we have come to discovering it's nature.
  • Annie~Pro American~Pro Israel 2012/05/19 06:40:57
    Annie~Pro American~Pro Israel
    I have without a doubt.
  • Daring ... Annie~P... 2012/05/19 14:07:47
    Daring Blasphemer BN-0
    HOW DO YOU KNOW?
  • Adam 2012/05/19 00:36:23 (edited)
    Adam
    +2
    I'm a universal reconciliation/Congregationalist with a strong belief in utilitarianism. Pretty much if you're not a douchebag, I'm compatible with you, and screw dogmatic, useless religious hierarchy.
  • Daring ... Adam 2012/05/19 05:52:00
    Daring Blasphemer BN-0
    Fair enough and by your answer I am guessing you are not the problem. Thank you.
  • Bearish~PWCM~ 2012/05/18 23:19:52
    Bearish~PWCM~
    +2
    I was brought up Christian, I believe human nature given enough time destroys all it comes into contact with, Including Religion.. So I follow the Ten Commandment and the Golden Rule..

    By doing so, I have had a great life up to this point and don't see any reason why it would change..

    I do believe there is a God, I also believe his word has been manipulated by man for his purposes not for Gods..

    So to answer your question, If there is a God by any name and you follow the commandments and the golden rule, Why would he/she forsake anyone?..
  • Daring ... Bearish... 2012/05/19 05:53:52
    Daring Blasphemer BN-0
    +1
    What a beautiful answer. When the witch hunts begin again I will be proud to burn next to such a tolerant and decent human being. Thank you.
  • BlunderWoman ~ FTGOP~ BN 0 2012/05/18 17:39:23
    BlunderWoman ~ FTGOP~ BN 0
    +1
    Sure. Why not?

    queso
  • gracious43 2012/05/18 17:02:17
    gracious43
    +1
    You have to fact-check the book. If the book is erroneous, invalid and not reliable, any religion coming from it is also erroneous, invalid and not reliable.
  • jeane gracious43 2012/05/19 02:56:55
    jeane
    +3
    No one can be "given" THE KINGDOM" by another. This person is trying to understand that which cannot be seen with his intellect.

    God has him in derision.
  • gracious43 jeane 2012/05/19 04:00:55
    gracious43
    +1
    I made my religious decison based on cool logic, not on anything subjective. I wouldn't expect anyone else to do otherwise.
  • jeane gracious43 2012/05/19 04:34:33
    jeane
    +1
    Okay Gracious - but I have a feeling that along with "cool logic" the HOLY SPIRIT was at work in you and your Spirit answered.
  • gracious43 jeane 2012/05/19 04:48:04
    gracious43
    I don't believe so. I believe that the Holy Spirit only revealed knowledge to the prophets and the apostles, and that we learn what we know by reading them. This is what Paul taught.


    Ephesians 3:3-6
    3 that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief. 4 By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight [b]into the mystery of Christ, 5 which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets [c]in the Spirit; 6 to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel

    Acts 17:11
    Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.


    This is in direct contrast with Moroni 10 in the BOM where Mormons are told to pray to be given the knowledge of whether this was truth. When you get on youtube, you find all kinds of "testimonies" from Mormons asserting that when they read and prayed, that a "feeling of peace" comes over them. All kinds of religions experience exotic ecstatic feelings, and since they disagree with each other,...

    I don't believe so. I believe that the Holy Spirit only revealed knowledge to the prophets and the apostles, and that we learn what we know by reading them. This is what Paul taught.


    Ephesians 3:3-6
    3 that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief. 4 By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight [b]into the mystery of Christ, 5 which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets [c]in the Spirit; 6 to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel

    Acts 17:11
    Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.


    This is in direct contrast with Moroni 10 in the BOM where Mormons are told to pray to be given the knowledge of whether this was truth. When you get on youtube, you find all kinds of "testimonies" from Mormons asserting that when they read and prayed, that a "feeling of peace" comes over them. All kinds of religions experience exotic ecstatic feelings, and since they disagree with each other, not all of them can be true.

    ecstascy of st theresa
    (more)
  • jeane gracious43 2012/05/19 05:18:25 (edited)
    jeane
    +1
    I understand what you are saying but - ULTIMATELY.....

    Hebrews 11:6
    And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

    Matt 16: 13When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

    14They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

    15“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

    16Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

    17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.
  • gracious43 jeane 2012/05/19 13:54:35
    gracious43
    Well, the Hebrews passage is about faith. The Matthew passage is about belief. They really are two different qualities.

    Belief is the quality that comes from debate and logic and examination of evidence. Faith comes from experience and fulfilled hopes.

    I never have problems with my belief that Jesus came to earth in the first century, fulfilled OT prophesy, worked miracles and left behind apostles. I haven't worried about those kinds of matters in decades. But f-a-i-t-h is another matter.

    Faith is the quality in which I get up in the morning determined to treat my employer and my co-workers in such-and-such way, even when it appears that my daily bread could be in jeopardy, or my pride is damaged or any other things that I value might be taken away from me.

    But even faith comes with practice. It isn't something that is just handed to us.
    Even the apostles, when they asked Jesus for more faith in order to become more forgiving--(that requires faith!!!!) was sent out to work for it.


    Luke 17:4-12
    4 Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ‘I repent,’ you must forgive them.”

    5 The apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith!”

    6 He replied, “If you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be uprooted an...

    Well, the Hebrews passage is about faith. The Matthew passage is about belief. They really are two different qualities.

    Belief is the quality that comes from debate and logic and examination of evidence. Faith comes from experience and fulfilled hopes.

    I never have problems with my belief that Jesus came to earth in the first century, fulfilled OT prophesy, worked miracles and left behind apostles. I haven't worried about those kinds of matters in decades. But f-a-i-t-h is another matter.

    Faith is the quality in which I get up in the morning determined to treat my employer and my co-workers in such-and-such way, even when it appears that my daily bread could be in jeopardy, or my pride is damaged or any other things that I value might be taken away from me.

    But even faith comes with practice. It isn't something that is just handed to us.
    Even the apostles, when they asked Jesus for more faith in order to become more forgiving--(that requires faith!!!!) was sent out to work for it.


    Luke 17:4-12
    4 Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ‘I repent,’ you must forgive them.”

    5 The apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith!”

    6 He replied, “If you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be uprooted and planted in the sea,’ and it will obey you.

    7 “Suppose one of you has a servant plowing or looking after the sheep. Will he say to the servant when he comes in from the field, ‘Come along now and sit down to eat’? 8 Won’t he rather say, ‘Prepare my supper, get yourself ready and wait on me while I eat and drink; after that you may eat and drink’? 9 Will he thank the servant because he did what he was told to do? 10 So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.’”
    (more)
  • jeane gracious43 2012/05/19 16:16:49 (edited)
    jeane
    +1
    You have to have faith to believe. The two cannot be separated. You Can’t Believe Until You Have Faith .

    Quote from my readings:

    Faith is the noun form, and believe is the verb form of the same Greek word. Believe then is the action side of faith, but you cannot act in faith until you have faith. Faith is the ability to believe, but that ability must be acted upon for it to work. Believing is the action of faith. Just having faith is not enough. James tells us that faith without corresponding actions is lifeless and dead.
  • gracious43 jeane 2012/05/19 16:36:18
    gracious43
    +1
    The two are separated, and although you do have to have belief to have faith, it has been demonstrated time and time again, that you don't have to have faith to believe. I certainly know that is true in my stone-cold and utterly heartless belief. There has been may times that I have been completely unfaithful.

    James 2:18-20
    18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
    Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that —and shudder.
  • jeane gracious43 2012/05/19 16:41:52
    jeane
    +1
    LOL - you may have been unfaithful - but YOU have faith My Dear Gracious - even some untapped faith from what I have seen!
  • gracious43 jeane 2012/05/19 16:56:26
    gracious43
    +1
    There has been many moments--and right now I am facing a moment in my life right now--where I have had to cry out "Lord, increase my faith."

    Some people are at a point in their lives, when they need help with belief. That is simple for God. He simply offers evidence:


    Mark 9:23-25
    23 “What do you mean, ‘If I can’?” Jesus asked. “Anything is possible if a person believes.”

    24 The father instantly cried out, “I do believe, but help me overcome my unbelief!”

    25 When Jesus saw that the crowd of onlookers was growing, he rebuked the evil[a] spirit. “Listen, you spirit that makes this boy unable to hear and speak,” he said. “I command you to come out of this child and never enter him again!”



    But I am a harder case:)
  • jeane gracious43 2012/05/19 17:00:49
    jeane
    +1
    We are merely human Gracious - faith and belief are continually in need of watering to grow.
  • gracious43 jeane 2012/05/19 17:04:51
    gracious43
    I think faith does take feeling and heart, courage and empathy and great love. Those are the things I lack, most days.
  • jeane gracious43 2012/05/19 20:17:08
    jeane
    +1
    Maybe that is what you feel about yourself but that is not what I see here.
  • gracious43 jeane 2012/05/20 04:39:08
    gracious43
    +1
    Really? Sometimes I get pretty harsh on SH. But thanks for the vote of confidence.
  • jeane gracious43 2012/05/19 16:42:36 (edited)
    jeane
    +1
    Well we disagree - I believe that you must have faith to be a believer. When we get to heaven we will see who is right (just kidding!) LOL snickering
  • gracious43 jeane 2012/05/19 16:58:25
    gracious43
    "Well we disagree - I believe that you must have faith to be a believer. "

    Well, you would have to take that up with James, the brother of Jesus, because he is the one that even demons believed and shuddered.

    But in any case, I think we agree that it requires faith to obtain eternal life.
  • jeane gracious43 2012/05/19 17:03:26 (edited)
    jeane
    +1
    Yes of course demons believe in God - that is totally different. But they have EXPERIENCED HIS unmitigated power. Blessed are those who have not seen yet believe (faith).
  • gracious43 jeane 2012/05/19 17:11:12
    gracious43
    Blessed are those who have not seen yet believe (faith).

    No that isn't faith. That is the people, such as you and I who examine scriptural evidences. That requires an academic integrity different than the lucky-ducks who were first-hand eyewitnesses of the first century. Of course, they were the ones who were burned alive in the gardens of Nero.

    And by the way, you don't have to have a school degree to deal with texts with integrity. An honest heart doesn't have anything at all to do with a college degree.
  • jeane gracious43 2012/05/19 20:18:49
    jeane
    +1
    Bible study quote:


    Thomas is an illustration of a disciple weak in faith who would not believe without seeing. After our Lord arose from death, He appeared to the disciples. “But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into His side, I will not believe” (John 20:24, 25). Thomas was like the Corinthians, weak in faith, demanding to see the sign (miracle) before he would believe.

    Eight days later the Lord appeared again. “Then saith He to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side:and be not faithless but believing.” (John 20:27). The doubting Thomas needed a sign, so the Lord appeared to him so that he would not continue without faith. And then He said to Thomas, “Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed; blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed” (John 20:29). The Christian who will study the Bible and believe what it says will walk by faith, not by sight or sound.
  • jeane gracious43 2012/05/19 06:25:44
    jeane
    +1
    I am not talking about feeling Gracious - feelings betray us all. We cannot live in our feelings or believe in them.
  • gracious43 jeane 2012/05/19 14:03:29
    gracious43
    Right! But I have seen all too often in the denominational word, that "feelings" are the criteria for which truth is judged. And the truth doesn't always feel good. That is the problem.

    I have had Pentacost women talk to me about "a burning in the bosom." The Mormons have their "peace" thing. Catholics rely on ecstactic feelings, thus the rituals and beauty of their buildings. I don't even want to pick on religions. But you get my point.

    But the cold reality of religion is doing things that don't always feel good--like charity, or being an obedient wife, when your husband is not being such a great guy. Even telling a friend that they are wrong, when you are fearful that they will get mad--Those things don't "feel" so good. And you can't rely on "feelings" when you approach these challenges.
  • jeane gracious43 2012/05/19 16:15:55
    jeane
    +1
    That is my point.
  • gracious43 jeane 2012/05/19 16:37:05
    gracious43
    +1
    I was pretty sure we were in agreement about this matter.
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2014/08/29 20:30:28

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