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Do you support Gay marriage

Connectification 2012/04/21 13:53:08
Related Topics: Gay, Marriage, Gay Marriage
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  • Anonymo... sjalan 2012/04/21 19:07:01
    Anonymouse ~superdoge~
    She thinks that the government doesn't own the rights to marriage. I think the same, except I think the government should keep a record of them.
  • ☠ Live ... sjalan 2012/04/21 19:16:54
    ☠ Live Free Or Die ☠
    +1
    No one owns it. You can't "own" a concept. Besides, "religions" are private entities. Each one has a different definition of marriage, and no one is obligated to obey.
  • sjalan ☠ Live ... 2012/04/21 19:39:19
    sjalan
    +1
    If in the "religious rite of marriage" each religion has its "different definiton of marriage" Then how can you be against the "civil contract of civil marriage", which encompasses all of them for the enforcment of "civil law" purposes?
  • ☠ Live ... sjalan 2012/04/21 21:46:58
    ☠ Live Free Or Die ☠
    If a couple has a ceremony with all of their friends and family present... if they buy a home together... if they exchange vows... if they split expenses... if they consider themselves MARRIED... in what sense, prey tell, are they NOT married?
  • sjalan ☠ Live ... 2012/04/22 01:50:22
    sjalan
    +2
    Simple, without the "civil marriage""marriage certificate" in hand it is not a legal "civil marriage" and does not grant the rights, priveleges, benefits and responsibilities of "civil marriage" and as such is not legally binding nor recognized by any state of the federal government.
  • ☠ Live ... sjalan 2012/04/22 02:10:08
    ☠ Live Free Or Die ☠
    A marriage shouldn't need to be recognized by the federal government.
  • sjalan ☠ Live ... 2012/04/22 02:16:45
    sjalan
    +1
    Well tell ya what, IT IS. and since it is then it is covered by the federal laws, Laws which MUST comply with the US Constitution and its amendments.
  • Rusty Shackleford 2012/04/21 15:57:52
    No
    Rusty Shackleford
  • Connect... Rusty S... 2012/04/25 01:17:26
    Connectification
    Can you give us reason why?
  • Kigan 2012/04/21 15:52:33
    Yes
    Kigan
    Absolutely.
  • ✞Knight of Honor 2012/04/21 15:45:30
    No
    ✞Knight of Honor
    +3
    Romans 1:18-32
    18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles. 24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and...
    Romans 1:18-32
    18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles. 24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. 28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
    (more)
  • sjalan ✞Knight... 2012/04/21 18:07:26
    sjalan
    +2
    We are not talking about a "religious rite" we are talking about a "basic human civil right".

    Your use of the Bible of hate to justifiy your prejudices is foolhardy at best.
  • ✞Knight... sjalan 2012/04/21 22:58:01
    ✞Knight of Honor
    We are not talking about religious rite; we are talking about moral ethics. Moral ethics can not be ignored out of convince.

    My use of the Holy Bible is to spread the word of God as Jesus commanded his followers to do; I am not going to disregard that task because some people don't want me to.
  • sjalan ✞Knight... 2012/04/22 01:57:26
    sjalan
    Whose moral ethics? Your religiously imposed moral ethics? Excuses me but with a divorce rate of over 50% and that is just for first marriages. 3rd, 4th and 5th marriages are in excess of 75% divorice rate. And these for the most part are done in a "religious rite" setting.

    Sorry, But I nor anyone here has ever stated you should stop your ministry, however, when it comes to the "basic civil right" to the "civil contract of civil marriage" I don't see the imposition of religious dogma, doctrines and beliefs into a civil law process as valid.
  • ✞Knight... sjalan 2012/04/22 06:24:47
    ✞Knight of Honor
    How about when every monotheistic religion in the world (including Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Sikhism, and Zoroastrianism) all recognize homosexuality is immoral. Note that we live in a democracy and 83.9% of Americans believe in monotheistic values; do you think popular sovereignty should be ignored because you don't agree with it?

    Separation of Church and State isn't the same thing as Separation of Ethics and State.
  • Anonymo... ✞Knight... 2012/04/22 07:20:08 (edited)
    Anonymouse ~superdoge~
    You are twisting the facts - some Christians and Silhs believe that Homosexuality is not wrong, and many others believe they should allow them to 'live and let live'. The general consensus is in fact split 80/20 on homosexuality being allowed, and 45/55 on allowing gay marriage. Religion has little to do with it, my mother is a Christian and she wants Gay marriage to be legal.
  • ✞Knight... Anonymo... 2012/04/22 16:45:31
    ✞Knight of Honor
    "some Christians and Silhs believe that Homosexuality is not wrong" & "Religion has little to do with it"
    -The Holy Bible directly states that homosexuality is immoral and the Adi Granth states that all followers should be married while simultaneously defining marriage as a man and a woman. You have found the problem though; many religious believers don't even know what their religion believes.

    The Holy Bible:

    Leviticus 18:22-23
    22 Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

    Romans 1:18-32
    18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and bird...
    "some Christians and Silhs believe that Homosexuality is not wrong" & "Religion has little to do with it"
    -The Holy Bible directly states that homosexuality is immoral and the Adi Granth states that all followers should be married while simultaneously defining marriage as a man and a woman. You have found the problem though; many religious believers don't even know what their religion believes.

    The Holy Bible:

    Leviticus 18:22-23
    22 Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

    Romans 1:18-32
    18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles. 24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. 28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
    (more)
  • Anonymo... ✞Knight... 2012/04/22 17:25:08 (edited)
    Anonymouse ~superdoge~
    And Jesus said love thy neighbour. Not all theists are as full of hate as you, many are pro-choice as well, seeing as God didn't see unborn babies as humans in His laws. it all depends how you read the bible, or whether your priest/vicar/pastor is hate filled or tolerant. As I said, my Christian mother doesn't think Homosexuality is wrong,
  • ✞Knight... Anonymo... 2012/04/22 17:43:44
    ✞Knight of Honor
    "And Jesus said love thy neighbour."
    -Is trying to save someone from damnation any less than love?

    "many are pro-choice as well"
    -That is more undefined, but just as there is nothing in the Holy Bible about how slavery is wrong or how creating computer viruses is wrong, they are still immoral. The Holy Bible only creates the basic laws; society must find the most ethical solutions. Murdering children is wrong in my opinion.

    "As I said, my Christian mother doesn't think Homosexuality is wrong,"
    -Respectfully, she should probably read the Holy Bible more often then. Has she ever read Leviticus or Romans?
  • Anonymo... ✞Knight... 2012/04/22 18:16:23
    Anonymouse ~superdoge~
    Homosexuals do not go to hell, therefore you are not saving them from anything. The only way any non-Christian can go to heaven is to become a Christian, so perhaps you should start there. Leviticus was faked. I have read the bible, and have come to the same conclusion as my mother.
  • ✞Knight... Anonymo... 2012/04/22 18:22:18
    ✞Knight of Honor
    Again, I still want to hear why you think Leviticus is fake.

    What about Romans condemnation of homosexuality? Are you ignoring it for any particular reason?
  • Anonymo... ✞Knight... 2012/04/22 18:33:54
    Anonymouse ~superdoge~
    See below. And Jesus' word has the final say.
  • ✞Knight... Anonymo... 2012/04/22 18:38:59
    ✞Knight of Honor
    Jesus's word does have the final say, but he never claimed homosexuality was anything less than immoral. Why are you ignoring Romans?
  • Anonymo... ✞Knight... 2012/04/22 18:49:42
    Anonymouse ~superdoge~
    Because wasn't Romans Paul's letters, not Jesus' viewpoint?
  • ✞Knight... Anonymo... 2012/04/24 04:45:24 (edited)
    ✞Knight of Honor
    The most sucessful Christian missionary of all time isn't credible enough? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
  • Anonymo... ✞Knight... 2012/04/24 18:06:16
    Anonymouse ~superdoge~
    He isn't Jesus and therefore doesn't represent his beliefs.
  • ✞Knight... Anonymo... 2012/04/24 18:16:13
    ✞Knight of Honor
    He was not Jesus, but Paul the Apostle definitely followed Jesus's beliefs. He never said anything contrary to Jesus's word and spread Christianity throughout Rome and Greece; if he had never lived, the Word of God wouldn't have ever been spread to Europe. God sent him so that the pure Word of God could spread and save souls; that makes him one of the four most important people in Christianity.
  • Anonymo... ✞Knight... 2012/04/22 18:18:16
    Anonymouse ~superdoge~
    And the abortion issue isn't undefined - under Biblical law, if someone causes a miscarriage to a woman, they only have to pay a small fine to her to cover the trauma she incurred - not for the foetus.
  • ✞Knight... Anonymo... 2012/04/22 18:23:48
    ✞Knight of Honor
    I've read the passage that people claim means, "abortion is correct" but I interpret the passage differently.
  • Anonymo... ✞Knight... 2012/04/22 18:36:30
    Anonymouse ~superdoge~
    Everyone interprets everything in the Bible differently. It's just that you interpret it rather hatefully...
  • ✞Knight... Anonymo... 2012/04/22 18:41:38 (edited)
    ✞Knight of Honor
    God's Law is divine and unchanging; even when it's inconvenient for humans. I only state the passages as they are and what they mean.
  • Anonymo... ✞Knight... 2012/04/22 18:51:16
    Anonymouse ~superdoge~
    You don't know what they mean, no one does, that's why there are so many denominations of Christianity, no one can decide.
  • ✞Knight... Anonymo... 2012/04/24 04:47:16 (edited)
    ✞Knight of Honor
    Regrettably, there is much division in Christian churches over many trivial matters, but there are some things that only have one meaning (such as consistent accounts that homosexuality is immoral).
  • Anonymo... ✞Knight... 2012/04/24 18:08:03 (edited)
    Anonymouse ~superdoge~
    There are most likely many churches and religious people who disagree strongly with that statement.
  • ✞Knight... Anonymo... 2012/04/24 18:18:54
    ✞Knight of Honor
    Unfortunately, many churches have been reduced to struggling for existence so they have denied obvious facts. How many different meanings is there to the many passages that directly state "homosexuality is immoral" can there be? The answer is that there can't be any legitimate interpretations if they directly oppose Holy text.
  • Anonymo... ✞Knight... 2012/04/24 18:25:24
    Anonymouse ~superdoge~
    There clearly can - The bible contradicts itself in many places, so it clearly isn't infallible. And I tend to see the sections where God or Jesus is talking as more infallible than accounts of what people think God wants. These are still subject to multiple translations and changes that can change the meaning - take the new testament, the confilers hid many passages by apostles, like Mary Magdalene's, because they go against the message they want to put across about Jesus. This shows that you should take the bible's word lightly and not believe everything in it, because even if God is real, most of the Bible is likely to be a load of bull.
  • sjalan ✞Knight... 2012/04/22 07:22:54
    sjalan
    And you will find that they all originate in the same post Sumerian period.

    The concept of a Representative Constitutional Republic places upon all members of the society to repsect the individuality of the individual. We are not talking about what some individuals CHOSE to associate with in a religious sense. We are talking about the rights, priveleges, benefits and responsibilities of each member of society. We are also speaking of the FREEDOM of the individual.

    Freedom to pursue their OWN path; not that dictated by religions. Freedom to live our lives as we so chose to live it. Your dogma, doctrines and beliefs may be of the majority however, the beliefs and rights of the minority in our type of civil government MUST be equally protected. James Madison warned of this in his address to Congress during his presentation of the Bill of Rights.

    "In our Government it is, perhaps, less necessary to guard against the abuse in the executive department than any other; because it is not the stronger branch of the system, but the weaker. It therefore must be levelled against the legislative, for it is the most powerful, and most likely to be abused, because it is under the least control. Hence, so far as a declaration of rights can tend to prevent the exercise of undue power, it cannot...





    And you will find that they all originate in the same post Sumerian period.

    The concept of a Representative Constitutional Republic places upon all members of the society to repsect the individuality of the individual. We are not talking about what some individuals CHOSE to associate with in a religious sense. We are talking about the rights, priveleges, benefits and responsibilities of each member of society. We are also speaking of the FREEDOM of the individual.

    Freedom to pursue their OWN path; not that dictated by religions. Freedom to live our lives as we so chose to live it. Your dogma, doctrines and beliefs may be of the majority however, the beliefs and rights of the minority in our type of civil government MUST be equally protected. James Madison warned of this in his address to Congress during his presentation of the Bill of Rights.

    "In our Government it is, perhaps, less necessary to guard against the abuse in the executive department than any other; because it is not the stronger branch of the system, but the weaker. It therefore must be levelled against the legislative, for it is the most powerful, and most likely to be abused, because it is under the least control. Hence, so far as a declaration of rights can tend to prevent the exercise of undue power, it cannot be doubted but such declaration is proper.

    But I confess that I do conceive, that in a Government modified like this of the United States, the great danger lies rather in the abuse of the community than in the legislative body.

    The prescriptions in favor of liberty ought to be levelled against that quarter where the greatest danger lies, namely, that which possesses the highest prerogative of power.

    But it is not found in either the executive or legislative departments of Government, but in the body of the people, operating by the majority against the minority."
    (more)
  • ✞Knight... sjalan 2012/04/22 16:59:57
    ✞Knight of Honor
    +1
    "The concept of a Representative Constitutional Republic places upon all members of the society to repsect the individuality of the individual."
    -Only in the modern context; this concept wasn't mainstream until the 1960s (the age of Liberalism). This was not true for the first 186 years of the United States.

    "We are talking about the rights, priveleges, benefits and responsibilities of each member of society."
    -Correct. Should we provide anyone the legal support, privileges, and benefits in doing immoral acts (homosexuality, theft, murder, rape, and bestiality)? I am saying that homosexuals are responsible for their actions, unlike yourself who argues that they have no control over who they have sexual relations with.

    "Freedom to pursue their OWN path; not that dictated by religions."
    -What about when the majority chooses our path to be religious in nature?

    "James Madison warned of this in his address to Congress during his presentation of the Bill of Rights."
    -James Madison was a coward who fled the white house and pretended to be a vagrant when the British came to Washington D.C. in the war that he started (The War of 1812); instead of defending or warning people, he hid. Few people care what he said about minorities; the fact is that all of the founding fathers (including Madison...
    "The concept of a Representative Constitutional Republic places upon all members of the society to repsect the individuality of the individual."
    -Only in the modern context; this concept wasn't mainstream until the 1960s (the age of Liberalism). This was not true for the first 186 years of the United States.

    "We are talking about the rights, priveleges, benefits and responsibilities of each member of society."
    -Correct. Should we provide anyone the legal support, privileges, and benefits in doing immoral acts (homosexuality, theft, murder, rape, and bestiality)? I am saying that homosexuals are responsible for their actions, unlike yourself who argues that they have no control over who they have sexual relations with.

    "Freedom to pursue their OWN path; not that dictated by religions."
    -What about when the majority chooses our path to be religious in nature?

    "James Madison warned of this in his address to Congress during his presentation of the Bill of Rights."
    -James Madison was a coward who fled the white house and pretended to be a vagrant when the British came to Washington D.C. in the war that he started (The War of 1812); instead of defending or warning people, he hid. Few people care what he said about minorities; the fact is that all of the founding fathers (including Madison) opposed homosexuality. They never wrote any legislature on the matter because the idea of homosexuality being commonplace was completely unimaginable in the 18th and 19th centuries. If homosexuality wasn't universal then, why should it be a cornerstone of our modern society (if homosexuals could control their actions for 186 years, why are they incapable of doing it now)?
    (more)
  • sjalan ✞Knight... 2012/04/22 20:46:01
    sjalan
    A. Only in the modern context; this concept wasn't mainstream until the 1960s (the age of Liberalism). This was not true for the first 186 years of the United States.

    Not true. I suggest you look at the Preamble of our US Constitution. It spells it out plain and clear; the rights of the individual are paramount within the context of our NEW government being created.

    B. What about when the majority chooses our path to be religious in nature?

    Did you not read the last sentence of what James Madison wrote? The protection of the minority from the abuse of the majority is again paramount over the will of the majority. That is why the Bill of rights was introduced and added to the main part of the Constitution.

    C. James Madison was a coward who fled the white house and pretended to be a vagrant when the British came to Washington D.C. in the war that he started (The War of 1812); instead of defending or warning people, he hid. Few people care what he said about minorities;

    Yeah Right! The primary author of the US Constitution was a coward. He had a death sentence on his head the instant he penned the Constitution. As for minority rights, it was Madison's intent to protect ALL minorities; especially minority religions.

    As for your discussion on homosexuality, you really don't have a clue do you. It was just as prevalent then as it is now. Just very much hidden away.

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