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Who's the Biggest Jerk in Major League Baseball?

The Aging Yankee Liberal Douche 2010/01/13 07:37:51
Many players such as Jim Thome, Mike Sweeney, Curtis Granderson, Joe Mauer and Derek Jeter are known not only for their talent, but their offseason work and kindness to others. While those players are one in a million, there are plenty of jerks out there. Here are a list of mine and feel free to tell me if i missed any.

Manny Ramirez kindness players plenty jerks list feel free missed manny ramirez
Manny being Manny. It's been a common saying in MLB and to tell you the truth it;s kind of getting old. The Boston Red Sox tried trading him for yeard but were always reluctant to because a player with his talent could come to haunt him them in the past. Finally Manny's rants and refusals to play finally got him traded to the LA Dodgers (he even dared the organization to trade him). Since then he's been a diva and fan favorite in LA but still a controversial figure ever since his positive steroid test. Manny may be great, but he's nothing but a cocky a-hole.

John Rocker controversial figure positive steroid test manny cocky a-hole john rocker
Typical white-trash racist bigot. The hard throwing closer of the Atlanta Braves was known for his notorious opinion of New York City, the best city in the world. He was always known for making racist, homophobic and sexist remarks to the people in New York and minorities and general. Believers in karma look into John Rocker's story. A once dominant closer is now washed up and lost effectiveness since he made the remarks. Serves the loser right.

Scott Boras dominant closer washed lost effectiveness remarks serves loser scott boras
How many teams has this guy ripped off? Barry Zito, Dice-K, Adruw Jones, the list goes on and on. Many organizations such as the White Sox and Yankees are enraged with this tough negotiating agent. Who doesn't remember the whole A-Rod opt out controversey. I know the agent works for the player but you can't deny that Scott Boras shares some of the blame, if not most of it. He demands big money for players who don't deserve it, a desperate team gives in and they are a huge bust. Boras was recently fired by A-Rod, Kenny Rogers, and Jeremy Guthrie due to his greedy harsh nature. Maybe you need a new strategy Scott.

Gary Sheffield rogers jeremy guthrie greedy harsh nature strategy scott gary sheffield
How can someone with as high as a profile as Sheff play for 8 different teams in his career? Throughout a 16 year Hall of Fame calliber career Sheff played for the Milwaukee Brewers, San Diego Padres, Florida Marlins, Los Angeles Dodgers, Atlanta Braves, New York Yankees, Detroit Tigers, and the New York Mets. Not only is Gary known for his towering homeruns and his odd batting stance, he's also known as a foul-mouthed, ill- tempered wise talking street thug. Although i thought Sheff played very well in his time in New York, he did not seem like a loyal Yankee. When they traded him in the 2006 offseason he warned the Yankees that he would take action, and later accused then Manager Joe Torre to be prejudice against African Americans. He is also known for a brawl against Fausto Carmona and threatened Victor Martinez after recieving a suspension claiming that he would be "penalized by him as well". Sheffield was always a great outfielder, but his loud mouth is the real reason why he's been the most successful "journeyman" in baseball.

Roger Clemens outfielder loud mouth real reason successful journeyman baseball roger clemens
Typical hothead. From throwing at all-star players such as Alex Rodriguez, Mike Piazza, Barry Bonds, and Albert Pujols, to his short patience and complaints about his team clubhouse you can't stand to hate the guy. Although a Yankee fan i never was a fan of Clemens. I was very excited to see that they got him in 1999, but when i realized the jerk he really is i was less excited. He never stayed to cheer on his teammates on games he wasn't pitching, he didn't have to make roadtrips on the ones he wasn't starting in and even complained once about carrying his own luggage. Just because he was Roger Clemens people did not have a problem with his selfishness. And Rocket, there are other ways to pitch around great hitters other than beaning them in the head with your 98 MPH fastball. And was the bat incident very necessary, move on and accept the fact that Mike Piazza has hostile feelings against you.

Albert Belle fastball bat incident accept mike piazza hostile feelings albert belle
If you look up nutjob in the dictionary, a picture of Albert Belle will pop up. Foul mouthed and ill tempered to the media and hostile to his own teammates there was no question that Belle had serious anger issues. He knocked down Fernando Vina blocking his basepaths and once grabbed teammate Jason Grimsley and literally sent him through the cieling. He was not only known for his violent temper but his hostility towards the media and the off beat comments he made to them. A former Cleveland Indian's manager claimed he would always have violent outbursts after games and ruined the team dinners. He wasn't only a dangerous hitter to pitch to, but he wasn't a very pleasant person to be around with either.

Barry Bonds ruined team dinners dangerous hitter pitch pleasant person barry bonds
The Jerks of all Jerks. Also known for his hostility towards the media and sportswriters, he also lies through his teeth just to protect his image. He lied through a grand jury about his steroid use and changed his story several times. Teammates and fans also complained about his personality and rudeness to other people. Hey Barry, roid rage getting to you?

Alex Rodriguez complained personality rudeness people hey barry roid rage alex rodriguez
Yes, he deserves to be on this list too I guess. Although I don't think he's rude to teammates, fans or the media and he does not have an explosive temper, he's extremely cocky and self-centered. He cheated on his wife several of times and always wants to be center of attention. He gets booed wherever he goes, even by his home fans on occassion. However he does do a lot of charity work, and i have seen him signing autographs to children even after games.

Reggie Jackson fans occassion charity work signing autographs children games reggie jackson
Yeah Mr. October. Although people don't realize the jerk he really was. Since he got there, the team chemistry was ruined. Thurman Munson immediatly disliked him, Billy Martin despised him and he and "The Boss" would often bicker. He would refuse to run and do drills with the team during spring training instead worrying more about his hitting. One time he refused to shake hands with his teammates after hitting a homerun. Yeah Reggie was great in the clutch, but I never heard of somebody as self centered as him in that era.

Those are my guys. Which one is the biggest jerk to you or is there someone else, feel free to answer.
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  • Kennedyy♥ 2011/06/15 17:20:22
    Kennedyy♥
    A-Rod. Nuff saidd.

    Ha and did you notice that half of the people up there are yankees? Haha just sayin'
  • Scott Deffke 2011/06/13 19:20:57
    Scott Deffke
    +1
    It's nice to see a Yankee fan note that several Yankees are tops on the list of all-time jerks. Adding to A-Rod's list of notorious achievements: the 'slap' at first base in Game 6 of the 2004 ALCS; running across the mound and then belittling Dallas Braden for yelling at him; winning the 2007 Hank Aaron award, but apparently being too self-important to come to game 4 of the World Series and accepting the award from Hank Aaron - or even bothering to make a video acceptance, etc.; and of course there is the steroid issue. But then, seems like just about everybody lied about that.

    Enjoyed the bit on Sheffield. Here is a little known story - probably because the writer did not attribute it to Sheffield - though it was obvious who he was writing about. Evidently when Sheffield was on the Dodgers and they were in Colorado for a game the groundskeeper asked the Dodgers to finish up BP so they could get the field ready for the game. Sheffield ignored him, but when the groundskeeper persisted Sheffield berated him, basically saying, "Who are YOU, making $30,000 per year, to tell ME, what to do?" Nice.

    Finally Albert Belle. I saw him in Colorado Springs when he was in AAA and still known as Joey Belle. He struck out one time and threw his helmet towards his own dugout - nearly...
    It's nice to see a Yankee fan note that several Yankees are tops on the list of all-time jerks. Adding to A-Rod's list of notorious achievements: the 'slap' at first base in Game 6 of the 2004 ALCS; running across the mound and then belittling Dallas Braden for yelling at him; winning the 2007 Hank Aaron award, but apparently being too self-important to come to game 4 of the World Series and accepting the award from Hank Aaron - or even bothering to make a video acceptance, etc.; and of course there is the steroid issue. But then, seems like just about everybody lied about that.

    Enjoyed the bit on Sheffield. Here is a little known story - probably because the writer did not attribute it to Sheffield - though it was obvious who he was writing about. Evidently when Sheffield was on the Dodgers and they were in Colorado for a game the groundskeeper asked the Dodgers to finish up BP so they could get the field ready for the game. Sheffield ignored him, but when the groundskeeper persisted Sheffield berated him, basically saying, "Who are YOU, making $30,000 per year, to tell ME, what to do?" Nice.

    Finally Albert Belle. I saw him in Colorado Springs when he was in AAA and still known as Joey Belle. He struck out one time and threw his helmet towards his own dugout - nearly decapitating half his teammates. Even though he was easily the best hitter on the team, his own fans jeered him with the Daryl Strawberry cheer 'J-ooo-eeey, J-ooo-eeey' when he came to bat. I read where he semi-regularly destroyed the team's buffet. Definitely a grade-A jerk.
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  • The Agi... Scott D... 2011/06/15 06:54:42
    The Aging Yankee Liberal Douche
    I think the Braden/A-Rod incident was a bit silly altogether A-Rod should have never said anything to the media but he did have a point up until then braden was a nobody with no room to talk this was before his perfect game. And yeah the slap was a bush league play and don't forget the time where he shouted something at Rogers Centre and let a pop up drop the Blue Jays hated him after that. I thought Sheff did a good job in pinstripes but I always felt like he was a guy who was in it for the money didnt really care about anything else. He was hostile to the media, coaches and teammates didnt really like him and he bashed Joe Torre in 2007 after they traded him saying that he treats black players unfairly. Don't know too much about Albert Belle but it's something when your home fans boo you when he put up the numbers he was capable of he was a very dangerous hitter. And who doesnt forget Bobby Bonilla threatening an attack on a news reporter he was a bit of a jerk too
  • The Agi... Scott D... 2011/06/15 07:05:57
    The Aging Yankee Liberal Douche
    i heard an off the field story about belle where he chased down a group of kids on goosey night egging his house with his car and he ran over one of the kids
  • metalmania17 2011/06/08 11:57:10
    metalmania17
    Barry Bonds

    barry bonds barry bonds is an ass
  • danjac1263 2011/06/07 18:52:29
    danjac1263
    Albert Belle hated the media, so to me that is a plus for him If Kirby Puckett is a hall of famer, Belle deserves his own wing.
  • The Agi... danjac1263 2011/06/08 02:09:20
  • Superman 2010/01/14 15:50:52 (edited)
    Superman
    So I take it this is a historical list of jerks and not guys who are all currently playing,

    Ty Cobb - I think the old Georgia Peach is the original MLB jerk. Aside from his aggressive playing style and the fact that he alienated most teammates, he was an outspoken racist and even made comments toward Babe Ruth about what his possible heritage might be. Granted a lot of players from the era were racist, but this guy was the king.

    Pete Rose - Most of his jerk nature could be attributed to a highly competitive spirit, which is something great athletes need. But you don't need to be so competitive that you ram a catcher and injure him affecting the rest of his playing career - in an All Star Game. Not to mention betting on games while still in the game as a manager. Charlie Hustle may be one of the best hitters ever, but the guy was a jerk.

    Carlos Zambrano - He'd be my pick for biggest jerk in the game today. It's mainly a subjective pick being that he's a Cub and I'm a Cards fan. The guy has serious temperment issues to start. My anecdotal story was somewhere in the summer of 04 or 05. MV3 (Pujols, Rolen, Edmonds) were at their peak. The Cards were in Wrigley and unusually they were teeing off on Carlos. If memory serves Rolen hit one, our little guy So Taguchi hit one...
    So I take it this is a historical list of jerks and not guys who are all currently playing,

    Ty Cobb - I think the old Georgia Peach is the original MLB jerk. Aside from his aggressive playing style and the fact that he alienated most teammates, he was an outspoken racist and even made comments toward Babe Ruth about what his possible heritage might be. Granted a lot of players from the era were racist, but this guy was the king. comments babe ruth heritage granted players era racist guy king

    Pete Rose - Most of his jerk nature could be attributed to a highly competitive spirit, which is something great athletes need. But you don't need to be so competitive that you ram a catcher and injure him affecting the rest of his playing career - in an All Star Game. Not to mention betting on games while still in the game as a manager. Charlie Hustle may be one of the best hitters ever, but the guy was a jerk. mention betting games game manager charlie hustle hitters guy jerk

    Carlos Zambrano - He'd be my pick for biggest jerk in the game today. It's mainly a subjective pick being that he's a Cub and I'm a Cards fan. The guy has serious temperment issues to start. My anecdotal story was somewhere in the summer of 04 or 05. MV3 (Pujols, Rolen, Edmonds) were at their peak. The Cards were in Wrigley and unusually they were teeing off on Carlos. If memory serves Rolen hit one, our little guy So Taguchi hit one and Edmonds hit two. Amazingly Zambrano was still in the game for a third Edmonds at bat and he drilled him, after drilling a guy out of frustration earlier. Needless to say he was ejected, but it was a classless display. edmonds bat drilled drilling guy frustration earlier ejected classless display
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  • danjac1263 Superman 2011/06/08 16:46:16
    danjac1263
    I live near St Louis and my favorite team is whoever is playing the Cardinals. Cardinal fans went on for m on ths when Sosa was found to have used a corked bat, yet defended McGwire even when he was giving his lie about he only used andro. The Cardinal fans are the first to call an opposing player a hotdog for staring at a homerun or posing, yet when its there guys doing, well thats just showing honest emotion. Mac was an idiot, Pujols is arrogant as hell, and for whatever reason that little twerp Schumaker is pretty full of himself also. On top of that Tony Larussa has to be one of the biggest egomaniacs in the game. Zambrano was actually right in what he said the other day, but that wont stop many Cardinal fans from piling on him. Thats what they do. Carl Everett, Manny Ramirez,, those types were the biggest jerks.
  • Superman danjac1263 2011/06/10 14:36:57
    Superman
    Steroid use is what it is. You're not going to find this cardinal fan going off on sosa or mark or bonds for using. It was an unfortunate period in time for baseball that pretty much everyone is complicit in.

    I will however chuckle at someone who has to use a corked bat on top of that to try and gain an edge. Especially when the guy runs out on his team at the end of his last season.

    What in the world makes Pujols arrogant. He's a great player, he plays the game right. I'm never seen or heard him say one arrogant thing. He goes out, works his ass off to win. Good for him.

    TLR happens to be what the second winningest manager in baseball history? Thats not arrogance, thats success.

    All I can say is ten world titles in hand and so far the best record this season. Go Cards!
  • danjac1263 Superman 2011/06/10 17:15:14 (edited)
    danjac1263
    Pujols doesnt even run out groundballs. He also has the reputation of being moody as hell, the same way big Mac was. He stares at his homeruns as much as any player in the game as Cardinal fans complain about opposing players that do it Ten world titles has nothing to do with the subject matter. Lets not forget they play in what has been the weakest division om baseball for several; years now. Larussa maybe the second most winningest manager , but that also has nothing to do with arrogance now does it. He should have won two more world series when he managed the Athletics, but pissed them away. Larussa is a bit of an egomaniac and likes people to talk about him. He also was right in the middle of the whole steroid issue in Oakland as he played dumb while the bash brothers were juicing.
  • Superman danjac1263 2011/06/10 18:31:25
    Superman
    Most ballplayers dont run out grounders. And considering his history with foot issues thats a small issue. As for surliness Pujols has moody days and great days, again like a lot of ballplayers. Dude, like Mark, does quite a bit of charitable work, and is a class act. Pujols doesn't stare down his shots. He hits and runs.

    The fact that he's the second winningest manager means that he's smart and will constantly be at the forefront of baseball discussion. Which means haters that see more of him will complain that he's arrogant when he's not.
  • danjac1263 Superman 2011/06/10 22:31:57
  • Superman danjac1263 2011/06/13 16:26:28
    Superman
    Two of the fallacies associated with undermining good managers: they had talent and they've "been around awhile". First of all longevity is only achieved through success. The reason LaRussa has been around so long is because he is indeed a great manager. He's been able to produce winning teams at every stop. Second, what winning or championship teams don't have talent? I guess Bill Walsh had nobody at qb and wr and on defense when he lead the 9ers to Super Bowls? I guess Phil Jackson and Red Auberach were managing hobos with the Bulls and Lakers and Celtics? That has to be the silliest arguement I've ever heard.

    Furthermore, if you look at the teams Tony was taking to the playoffs with the Cardinals its not like we're talking about the 50's Yankees. Yeah, there was some talent - Pujols most notably for the last decade. But for the most part his pitching staffs were no bodies. Jeff Suppan as NLCS MVP and wins from Soup and Anthony Reyes and Jeff Weaver in the 2006 World Series? Really? Yeah, those names are synonamous with Koufax and Ryan and Gibson right?

    TLR is the best modern manager. He's able to take one or two pieces of a high talent and surround those pieces with nothing and get consistent winning teams produced.

    Yeah, there are Cards fans who don't like LaRussa be...
    Two of the fallacies associated with undermining good managers: they had talent and they've "been around awhile". First of all longevity is only achieved through success. The reason LaRussa has been around so long is because he is indeed a great manager. He's been able to produce winning teams at every stop. Second, what winning or championship teams don't have talent? I guess Bill Walsh had nobody at qb and wr and on defense when he lead the 9ers to Super Bowls? I guess Phil Jackson and Red Auberach were managing hobos with the Bulls and Lakers and Celtics? That has to be the silliest arguement I've ever heard.

    Furthermore, if you look at the teams Tony was taking to the playoffs with the Cardinals its not like we're talking about the 50's Yankees. Yeah, there was some talent - Pujols most notably for the last decade. But for the most part his pitching staffs were no bodies. Jeff Suppan as NLCS MVP and wins from Soup and Anthony Reyes and Jeff Weaver in the 2006 World Series? Really? Yeah, those names are synonamous with Koufax and Ryan and Gibson right?

    TLR is the best modern manager. He's able to take one or two pieces of a high talent and surround those pieces with nothing and get consistent winning teams produced.

    Yeah, there are Cards fans who don't like LaRussa because he's not a good old boy. They're stuck in the past and don't like some California bred lawyer vegetarian managing. STL fans, me included, fancy ourselves smart enough to be semi-managers so we someone runs counter to our expectations we default. Heres the rub, TLR has won as many World Series as Whitey and in an era in baseball when its harder to get there. I love Whitey too, but he had his time. The game has evolved. Hell, the Cardinals ballpark has evolved to where Whiteys methods wouldn't work anymore. Local fans that hate on TLR are stuck in the past and thats a shame for them. This is a great team, made up of great guys with the best manager of the past two decades. We're truly lucky.
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  • danjac1263 Superman 2011/06/13 22:28:39
    danjac1263
    Lets look at the A' s teams that should have won more than they did under larussa. Ya, tony got lucky with a team that backed into the playoffs and beat a wild card team in the world series a few years back. I dont think larussa is a horrible manager, but he isnt what id call upper tier either. Arent you the same guy that lied and said Pujols doesnt admire his homeruns? Awhile back he stood and stared at one then did some lame ass high steo act the last 20 yards before crossing homeplate. Thats typical of cardinal fans to look the other way when there guys act the fool. Thats ok though, because if Albert bolts after the season, most of these fools will start trashing him that very day. How bout dem Brewers. Get out the broom. SWEEEEEEEEEEEP. Im sure you noticed Prince admiring his massive bombs.
  • Superman danjac1263 2011/06/14 00:10:57
    Superman
    Wow, so you're just completely ignoring a cogent argument about the players under TLR during his time in STL? Take time and review that 1996 team that was one win away from the World Series? Probably not. You probably haven't looked at the full rosters of the teams he drove deep into the playoffs from 2000-2002 and 2004-2006. You're only argument is "he got lucky"? Thats not an argument. There are no numbers or facts behind the claim. Thats just an expression. Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to TLR, the Cards or baseball in general. Make an argument. Laid out the rosters and numbers that show TLR is medicore.

    But no, you deflect. You swing back around to the BS about Pujols (whos staying btw) and then you bring up a weekend sweep. Big deal. Wake me when the Cards are in the playoffs and the Brewers and Reds are either on the outside looking in or getting swept out of the Wild Card round. The Cards have had enough success in the last decade that a weekend sweep isn't a blip. All it is is a skirt for you to go hide behind because you can't make an argument to back up your claims.

    For the record, so it will help you sleep at night, I didn't notice Prince admiring anything just like Pujols doesn't.

    Keep deflecting and keep whining. The...
    Wow, so you're just completely ignoring a cogent argument about the players under TLR during his time in STL? Take time and review that 1996 team that was one win away from the World Series? Probably not. You probably haven't looked at the full rosters of the teams he drove deep into the playoffs from 2000-2002 and 2004-2006. You're only argument is "he got lucky"? Thats not an argument. There are no numbers or facts behind the claim. Thats just an expression. Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to TLR, the Cards or baseball in general. Make an argument. Laid out the rosters and numbers that show TLR is medicore.

    But no, you deflect. You swing back around to the BS about Pujols (whos staying btw) and then you bring up a weekend sweep. Big deal. Wake me when the Cards are in the playoffs and the Brewers and Reds are either on the outside looking in or getting swept out of the Wild Card round. The Cards have had enough success in the last decade that a weekend sweep isn't a blip. All it is is a skirt for you to go hide behind because you can't make an argument to back up your claims.

    For the record, so it will help you sleep at night, I didn't notice Prince admiring anything just like Pujols doesn't.

    Keep deflecting and keep whining. The Cards, TLR and Pujols will keep winning. 10 Titles and counting. A Hall of Fame of great respectable players from Hornsby to Musial to Gibby and Brock to Ozzie and soon to be Pujols. We're the second most important team in the sport to the Yankees. So until you can actually through some numbers and arguments and weight behind that whine I couldn't care.
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  • danjac1263 Superman 2011/06/14 22:53:43
    danjac1263
    Prince took a peek at his mamoth shots , but didnt stand and glare like Albert does. Also, Prince didnt do the the high step between third and home like Albert saw fit to in a recent game. The Cardinals have had success, but they dont stand out. Keep dreaming, and maybe you can talk yourself into believing the Cards will play Boston again in the world series. That would be another beatdown id fully enjoy, Watching the Bosox destroy the Cardinals was indeed sweet. Listening to the Cardinals fans excuses was an added bonus.
  • Superman danjac1263 2011/06/15 14:01:20
    Superman
    Don't stand out? Having the second most Wold Titles doesn't stand out? More recently being one of the most frequent playoff visitors doesn't stand out? Being in the top of teams in total wins for the last decade doesn't stand out? Having a player with the best consistency of production for his first ten years (plus three MVPs) doesn't stand out? Now you're just rationalizing and you sound like an idiot when you do it.

    Yeah, we lost to Boston. Oh well. Two years later we came back, under one of TLRs best managerial efforts, and practically swept the Tigers. It all evens out in the end.
  • danjac1263 Superman 2011/06/15 17:50:23
    danjac1263
    The Tigers were a wild card team , and shouldnt have been there to begin with. Piling up wins in the easiest division in baseball is not a huge ordeal. Its not like they did this in the AL East. Im sure many managers could have had Larussas teams and won just as much, and many would have won more. Larussa will always be the steroid manager in my book, as he played dumb while the Bash Brothers were sticking each other in the ass. Larussa should have been kicked out of baseball.
  • Superman danjac1263 2011/06/15 18:08:44
    Superman
    Well now I know you're off your rocker. The Tigers had 95 wins, 2 more than the division winning Athletics on the AL side and the fourth most wins in baseball that season. The Tigers then proceeded to win 3-1 over the Yanks and sweep the A's to make the Series.

    So if you're so screwed up that you can't get that right. That you're going to make that statement about the Tigers . . . then you don't have a legitimate point of view. And you're constant honking of the AL East and trashing of the NL Central is a bit much too. The AL East has produced 3 World Champs since 2001. Two for the Sox and one for the Yankees. Its been a surprisingly diverse decade of baseball as far as Championship teams go.

    Making it to and winning the Series isn't a fluke, but a feat. The fact that you're not rational enough to acknowledge that further undermines your credibility.

    I'm curious, with all the blind abject TLR and Cardinal hate - who do you support. You haven't mentioned. I wonder if there is a reason for that.
  • danjac1263 Superman 2011/06/16 17:15:11
    danjac1263
    The Tigers were a wild card team, period. I support whoever is playing the cardinals. I can say this much, when one of my favorites acts like Pujols, i dont lie about it like you do with Albert. Of course if Pujols leaves, you will be one of the first to trash him.
  • Superman danjac1263 2011/06/16 18:12:02
    Superman
    Whos your favorite team? Its the Cubs isn't it? Thats why you're dodging.

    People don't just randomly support teams, without at least one team in particular to root for. You don't have favorite players without a team backing them up.

    What are you running and hiding from?

    FYI, the only way Pujols gets any guff from me is if he signs with the Cubs. And at that point it will be for being a Cub, not for some fictional homerun watching.
  • danjac1263 Superman 2011/06/16 21:29:23
    danjac1263
    Since i play in fantasy leagues, ive become more of a fan of individual players, than teams. I was a Baltimore Orioles fan grwoing up and i guess i still am. I understand that they suck and their owner is a communist, but they also play in the superior american league.
  • Superman danjac1263 2011/06/16 21:40:04
    Superman
    Their owner does suck, but a communist? Thats a new one.

    Superior American League? Hardly. Its a little better but it ain't superior. Last decade: D Backs - 2001, Marlins -2003, Cardinals - 2006, Phillies -2008, Giants - 2010. AL holds only a slight edge in titles boyo.

    But then again it sounds like you have an issue with teams actually playing things out on the field. Anytime I point to winning you whine about teams shouldn't be there. Whatever . . .
  • danjac1263 Superman 2011/06/17 01:08:03
    danjac1263
    Of course Angelos is a communist. The world series is but one series, so we wont even count that. The AL won the all star game for what ten straight years, and yes thats not a huge indicator. The AL has won a large percentage of the interleague games for several years. Even Mike Shannon has several times admitted that the AL is a better league than the NL, and has had better young players for some time.The gap may have closed a bit in recent seasons, but it is still pretty clear. Other than the Phillies the national league has not had a top echelon team in several years, only teams that eeked out wins in theor divisions.There have been years where 3 of the top teams in baseball all played in the AL East. The American league is superior and has been for a time. Sooner or later you are going to have to face reality. Ok, i need to get back and watch the Nationals kick ass.Looks like 6 in a row. Good thing the Royals are coming to town. The Cards even get a break on that playing those clowns 6 times a season, while the Reds are playing Cleveland , and teams like the Mets are playing the Bombers.
  • Superman danjac1263 2011/06/17 01:22:41
    Superman
    The World Series is the series that counts. You know, the one that crowns champions. I wouldn't be so dismissive.

    And while you're whining about TLR and extolling the AL, you seem to forget that the AL has the top two spending teams in Boston and New York. So the argument about TLR having "great players" seems a lot less important than undermining the "great" AL by pointing out that they simply spend their way into being "good".
  • danjac1263 Superman 2011/06/17 05:53:51
    danjac1263
    The world series of course counts, but interleague play involves all the teams in both leagues, and many more games. The AL has dominated interleague play in a major way for several seasons. The last i checked the American league was not breaking any laws with their payrolls. Boy, you are really reaching now. Lets not act like the Cardinals are piss poor, Im sure their payroll dwarfs the Royals. If they man up and give Pujols what he wants they will be in the stratosphere, and no doubt the highest payroll in that pathetic division they play in. Something tells me you wont mind that however. By the way Tony managed on the A.L .That was back in the day when he just looked the other way while his players juiced. Now he has evolved to sitting drunk at stoplights.
  • Superman danjac1263 2011/06/17 14:05:13
    Superman
    There are no laws against spending money and that wasn't my argument. My argument was that you can't complain about TLR being a mediocre manager because he has "great players" while at the same time lauding how good the AL is when some of their teams spend double what the Cardinals do. Its one or the other. Either TLR is a good manager because he does more with what he's given in the middle and the AL is great or TLR is mediocre and the AL is only better off because the Red Sox and Yankees try and buy a championship each year.

    Clearly you don't have any knowledge of the economics of the central. If the Cardinals retain Pujols their salary is going to go up, but not a lot. He's making 16 now and figures likely to make 26-27. Thats a ten million bump. So instead of spending 90-100 a year the Cards would be spending 100-110. And likely the team would find ways to trim off some of the fat to get themselves back down to the 95-105 range. So they'll still come in well under the Yanks and Sox.

    Oh, and the Cubs. The Cubs outspend us all the time. So figure that into the calculation.

    The problem across baseball is that some teams don't want to spend. The Yankees and Sox have the cashflow to spend as much as they do on payroll, good for them. At least as ownership they are willing...
    There are no laws against spending money and that wasn't my argument. My argument was that you can't complain about TLR being a mediocre manager because he has "great players" while at the same time lauding how good the AL is when some of their teams spend double what the Cardinals do. Its one or the other. Either TLR is a good manager because he does more with what he's given in the middle and the AL is great or TLR is mediocre and the AL is only better off because the Red Sox and Yankees try and buy a championship each year.

    Clearly you don't have any knowledge of the economics of the central. If the Cardinals retain Pujols their salary is going to go up, but not a lot. He's making 16 now and figures likely to make 26-27. Thats a ten million bump. So instead of spending 90-100 a year the Cards would be spending 100-110. And likely the team would find ways to trim off some of the fat to get themselves back down to the 95-105 range. So they'll still come in well under the Yanks and Sox.

    Oh, and the Cubs. The Cubs outspend us all the time. So figure that into the calculation.

    The problem across baseball is that some teams don't want to spend. The Yankees and Sox have the cashflow to spend as much as they do on payroll, good for them. At least as ownership they are willing to invest even if they could be accused of trying to buy championships all the time. Then there are teams in the middle that generate revenue and sort of live within their means but they are still willing to spend and invest. The Cardinals fit into that level along with a lot of other teams. Good for them, they want to compete. Then you have the Royals and Pirates and Marlins. These are teams that have a certain cashflow, its low but its there. But the owners refuse to reinvest to make the team competitive. Thats not the fault of any other club and I'm not going to waste my time concerning over the fact that the Pirates and Royals have bad ownership. Thats on them.
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  • danjac1263 Superman 2011/06/17 18:41:43
    danjac1263
    Well, you are actually right about part of the spending problem. Nobody is holding a gun to any owners head telling them what to spend on payroll. It was a pathetic leap however to talk about two teams when my assertion that the AL is a far better brand. The AL does not consist of only the Red Sox and Yankees.Listening to the Cardinals games on the radio is sometimes entertaining. Hearing the announcer of this supposed proud franchise whine and bitch about balls and strikes all the time reminds me of little league.Ive listened to alot of homer announcers in my day, but these Cardinal announcers are a damn joke. Even on TV the Mad Hungarian is a Cardinal lapdog. Jack Buck was pretty much a homer in his later years, but he wasnt as pathetic as this current crop of ass kissers. If the Cardinals cant beat the Royals, maybe they can line up a series with the Grizzlies.
  • Superman danjac1263 2011/06/17 19:33:01
    Superman
    When you've talked about the AL, you've highlighted the East a number of times. Whos in the East?

    Actually, I would argue that if you took the Yankees or Red Sox out of the AL and stick them in the NL the leagues would be about even. The AL and NL both have really good franchises, modestly good teams, and poor franchises.

    But the AL corners the market on the top two spenders.

    Look, I'm not going to react to your silly accusations and whining about specific Cardinals anymore, announcers or players. Its the same sort of biased generic rhetoric that people that hate specfic teams always say. Oh I hate team "x", they're players are jerks or they're announcers are homers . . . . boo hoo. Thats old hat stuff. You hate the team, we get it. You've got a bias. Fine. Make an argument. Back it up with facts. Leave the rhetoric on the sideline because its boring and its just one little mans opinion.
  • danjac1263 Superman 2011/06/17 20:45:01 (edited)
    danjac1263
    My hatred for the Cardinals is based on growing up 25 miles from the stadium. Ive heard it all, about how the Cardinals have the smartest fans in baseball. Of course this is being said on St Louis radio and by Cardinal fans. Its a huge shock that they would give themselves this title. Its not the fault of Boston or New York that they dont mind spending money. Tampa Bay is also in that division the last time i checked. The Cardinals payroll was higher than Detroits so using your analogy St. Louis bought that world series right? Or does the spending money rule only apply to teams with higher payroll than St. Louis? Im sure if the Cardinals sign Albert and even bring in Jose Reyes that you wouldnt have any problem at all with the spending. Funny how that works.
  • Superman danjac1263 2011/06/17 21:03:20
    Superman
    Look, I've said I have no problem with teams spending money. All I'm trying to point out is you can't have it both ways. You can't complain about TLR getting lucky because he has good players but then laud the League that has a team with the two highest payrolls as some great thing.

    If you want my express opinion on it TLR is a great manager with a team of slightly above average means. The AL is little better but not by much because at the end of the day no matter how many regular season wins you have World Series championships matter. The AL holds the slight edge there right now. Teams should do their best to reinvest what they can within the rules of baseball so I'm happy for the Yanks and Sox. Its just that you can't go on about the AL and complain about TLR. Its contradictory.

    Yeah the AL has Tampa. And the NL has Miami who goes about the same method of developing great cheap young talent only to sell them off. Guess what, Marlins have won two championships. The NL has the Phillies and a great Giants team. The Dodgers had a period before ownership blew up of being a great team. The Rockies are always good comers. The Braves. The Cardinals and Reds and Brewers over the past few years. And we're not too far removed from the Astros being a great team either.

    The AL has ...



    Look, I've said I have no problem with teams spending money. All I'm trying to point out is you can't have it both ways. You can't complain about TLR getting lucky because he has good players but then laud the League that has a team with the two highest payrolls as some great thing.

    If you want my express opinion on it TLR is a great manager with a team of slightly above average means. The AL is little better but not by much because at the end of the day no matter how many regular season wins you have World Series championships matter. The AL holds the slight edge there right now. Teams should do their best to reinvest what they can within the rules of baseball so I'm happy for the Yanks and Sox. Its just that you can't go on about the AL and complain about TLR. Its contradictory.

    Yeah the AL has Tampa. And the NL has Miami who goes about the same method of developing great cheap young talent only to sell them off. Guess what, Marlins have won two championships. The NL has the Phillies and a great Giants team. The Dodgers had a period before ownership blew up of being a great team. The Rockies are always good comers. The Braves. The Cardinals and Reds and Brewers over the past few years. And we're not too far removed from the Astros being a great team either.

    The AL has the edge. But this rhetoric about being superior or easily better or whatever is overdoing it. Its silly.

    Let me ask you this, what do you think of the current allignment and how that fits in? The AL has fewer teams the NL has a division with 6 teams. And for some reason MLB keeps unbalanced schedules? I think its bad competitive balance. I don't want to see the Pirates 8 times a year. I want to play everyone an equal amount of time so we know for sure whos who by the end of the season. I also think MLB needs to develop a sched that allows for 15 teams in each league. That could be one running interleague series a year or abandoning the traditional system and balancing the whole league schedule. But I think the way baseball is played today its impossible to really know whos who heading into the playoffs.

    Then again, I'm talking to someone who points out rightly that the Yankees spend within the rules of the game (which I completely agree with) yet you also say well x team was a wild card team so they didn't deserve to be there (even after being given stats). So that seems sort of selective. Its ok to dismiss teams that achieve things within the rules when they lose to the Cardinals .... but if someone points out possible unbalanced competition because of money spent then its time to get right back rigidly to the rules. Thats completely unbalanced. Tigers were a great team that year and deserved to be in the Series. How come you don't want to be consistent?
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  • danjac1263 Superman 2011/06/17 21:49:16
    danjac1263
    I agree the World Series should be a factor, but it only factors the two best teams. Interleague play is much wider in scope, and a better indicator on league strength. I think the Ginst have great pitching, but they arent a great team. Houston is pretty much a joke, although they have some nice players. My assertions of Larussa being a good but not great manager hasnt got anything much to do with payroll. Hes managed over 5000 games he should have more wins than almost anyone else. Soon Arizona will be moved to the A.L, The Tigers werent a great team, They were a good team that caught lightening in a bottle. The Cardinals were the same way backing into the playoffs on the last couple games of the season, winning what 84 games? The best teams dont always win, and neither of these teams should have even been there.
  • Superman danjac1263 2011/06/20 15:02:55
    Superman
    Again, the "he's managed so many game" argument is a reverse argument. The only reason he's managed so many games is because he's good. If you suck or you're mediocre then you don't keep getting jobs or long tenure. He's managed over 5000 games because he's consistently good.

    The fact that you call the 2006 Tigers just a good team shows that you have no idea what you were talking about. They were a great team that year. As I pointed out they were in the tops that year record wise. They deserved to be there for sure.

    I actually completely understand the argument that the Cards shouldn't have been in the playoffs that year, that they were mediocre. But saying it about the 2006 Tigers is just plain stupid.

    But now we're rehasing old arguments because you don't have responses to anything I say or any questions I ask. You're dodging. And if thats how this conversation is going to go then I have better things to do.
  • danjac1263 Superman 2011/06/21 03:44:38
    danjac1263
    The Tigers didnt even win their division Some managers leave when they could still manage many more seasons. I think for example Bobby Cox could have managed another 7 or 8 seasons. Not all these manaagers that dont manage forever were forced out.I dont have a problem with him being called a good manager, but hes far from great. And him playing dumb during the height of the steroid era was shameful.Now i am listening to all these brilliant Cardinal fans about Alberts injury. The cardinal fan will bemoan every injury their team gets , but they are fast to yap about injuries being a part of the game when other teams have them. Go Brewers.
  • Superman danjac1263 2011/06/21 15:35:08
    Superman
    Hmmmm . . . Didn't the Red Sox win the wild card the year they beat the Cardinals? I guess they shouldn't have been there either, by your logic. I guess you shouldn't be all excited by that one since Wild Card teams in the World Series is a crime.

    But then again, its your own phrase - the Yankees spending is "within the rules of baseball". So since they have wild card teams and no rules against wild card teams going to the world series I don't understand how you can dismiss the Tigers since they were winning "within the rules of baseball".

    You keep contradicting yourself.

    So now he's up from mediocre to good huh? Interesting. And since when has a manager deciding not to retire an argument against him. Yeah Bobby Cox could have managed longer but he wanted time off, he wanted to retire. Thats his decision. Thats different then a bad manager being fired and being kept from more years managing. Tony is good enough and consistent enough that he's earned the trust of ownership to continue on in his job.

    I mean look at the job he's doing this year. Wainwright out all season. Stints on the DL for a number of players on the team including Holliday. Pujols having his first off year. And no run support for a 1-7 Carpenter. Yet the Cards are still in the thick, spending time in f...





    Hmmmm . . . Didn't the Red Sox win the wild card the year they beat the Cardinals? I guess they shouldn't have been there either, by your logic. I guess you shouldn't be all excited by that one since Wild Card teams in the World Series is a crime.

    But then again, its your own phrase - the Yankees spending is "within the rules of baseball". So since they have wild card teams and no rules against wild card teams going to the world series I don't understand how you can dismiss the Tigers since they were winning "within the rules of baseball".

    You keep contradicting yourself.

    So now he's up from mediocre to good huh? Interesting. And since when has a manager deciding not to retire an argument against him. Yeah Bobby Cox could have managed longer but he wanted time off, he wanted to retire. Thats his decision. Thats different then a bad manager being fired and being kept from more years managing. Tony is good enough and consistent enough that he's earned the trust of ownership to continue on in his job.

    I mean look at the job he's doing this year. Wainwright out all season. Stints on the DL for a number of players on the team including Holliday. Pujols having his first off year. And no run support for a 1-7 Carpenter. Yet the Cards are still in the thick, spending time in first and still with good chance to win the division. A division, too, that isn't as bad as it once was.

    Injuries are a part of the game. Thats never stopped any fan of anytime from concern when they're players get injured. I'm not sure what your point is. Cardinals suffer iunjuries and win. Other teams suffer injuries and win. Sometimes you suffer injuries and lose. Thats part of the game. So what?

    As for steroids - everyone played dumb. The players and managers and owners and League officials and sportswriters and fans. Any level of shame that should be levied out should be handed out fairly to everyone involved. Not just singling out one person because you don't like them. Thats always been one of my problem with steroid complainers, that they pick and choose who they want to complain about and assume about and leave guys they like alone. If we're to believe the era was rife then theres no telling who used. From guys like McGwire and Sosa to even guys like Ripken (roids in the right amount would help speed recovery and extend certain streaks) and Griffey. But people like Griffey and Ripken so they get a pass on the assumption.

    Roids happened. We all let it happen. We can't quantify what effect it had on records but that shouldn't be the story anyway. Roids are banned because they have health risks. That should be story number one. We should create and environment where more than just one guy (McGwire btw) can feel comfortable coming forward to talk and to help stop further abuse so we can save lives. But so many people are intent on pointing fingers and being angry that the problem will never get solved. Thanks a lot.
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  • danjac1263 Superman 2011/06/21 16:52:52 (edited)
    danjac1263
    The Red Sox were indeed a wildcard team. Even so they had a terrific record and played in by far the best division in baseball. Boston has went on to prove there validity while the Tigers have swam in the kiddie pool, since there one sad run at the world series. If you can be mediocre for several decades thats pretty good, managing can wear on a person, but Tony is not great. The Cardinals are in the thick of things because there are no real good teams in that division, although it isnt as pathetic as prior years. The Cards better be thankful they got to play the Royals 6 times while the Brew Crew was playing Boston. I remember years when the Reds, Brewers and other teams had many injuries. The typical Card fan answer to that of course is its part of baseball. Injuries are only an excuse when its a Cardinal player.Tonys minions now have an excuse when they finish in third place, it was all the injuries. Of course if they win the division its because Tony knew how to pull all the right strings.
  • Superman danjac1263 2011/06/21 18:00:03
    Superman
    I pointed out that the Tigers had a great record and that was ignored. Basically you're showing, again, not just an American League bias but specifically an AL East bias. The Tigers have been in contention often. For most teams throughout the history of baseball you only climb to the World Series once or twice in a cores time together. Even those Red Sox only made it to two World Series. Its not like they went on a complete tear. And it was three years before they were back again. So try being consistent and get off your knees for the AL East.

    You're making a false assumption. That Cardinals fans are excusing anything with injuries. We're not. In fact, I said directly that injuries are part of baseball. And I've also pointed out that in spite of our injuries we're staying in the hunt . . . thats not excusing anything. Thats taking pride in this team and manager to achieve.

    You try and tailor every answer to your anti-Cardinal bias but at it leaves you with is points of contradiction and the appearance that you aren't paying attention.

    You need to let your bias go and make a solid baseball argument. You're failing to do so.
  • danjac1263 Superman 2011/06/21 20:59:35
    danjac1263
    The Tigers were one year wild card wonders, and have barely been heard from since. The wild card coming out of the AL East, though tainted is much better than any othert wild card. A team that couldnt even win their division beat the Cardinals worse than Ike beat Tina, Ive lived around Cardinal fans my entire life, and know they are every bit as ignorant as a group than any other teams fans. Kevin Slaten knows this, and you need to learn it. Im so tired of hearing the whining about the injuries, and of course this allows Tony a free pass incase this season is pissed away.I dont have an anti Cardinal bias i just do not like them at all, but i hate their fans more. I can admit the Orioles suck, and i dont have to blame injuries , or their screwy owner. I also know that they play in what has been the best division in baseball for over a decade. They are a better team than Houston or the Cubs though, and just as good as the Pirates. Hell, theyd be right in the middle of that division .Its damn near impossible to listen to any sports talk radio without hearing the whine fest. But of course you are deaf to it.
  • Superman danjac1263 2011/06/21 21:39:12
    Superman
    In 2006 the Tigers were 95-67 and finished only one game out of first. The Red Sox that year finished 86-76 btw. Again, they had the fourth best record that year and were only 2 games out of the best record. Oh yeah, they destroyed the Yankees and swept the NLCS on top of a stunning regular season performance. So in short you're an idiot.

    In 2007 and 2009 they finished second in their division again. And they are contesting with the Indians for first this season. They've "been heard from" plenty. They argument that they just disappeared is incorrect. They've been in contention. Like most good team throughout the history of baseball.

    But then again you show how much you're on your knees for the AL East by saying "wild card coming out of the AL East, though tainted is much better than any othert wild card." Oh, despite the rules of baseball the wild card is "tainted". But a little less so in the AL East either because of your hardon for so much money being spent or just because you hate the Cardinals.

    Again, no consistency. And you ignore arguments and continue on with blathering rhetoric despite the arguments undermining you. No wonder you listen to Slaten, on of the biggest idiots out there.

    My favortite quote of yours from this ridiculously long as useless thread (at ...







    In 2006 the Tigers were 95-67 and finished only one game out of first. The Red Sox that year finished 86-76 btw. Again, they had the fourth best record that year and were only 2 games out of the best record. Oh yeah, they destroyed the Yankees and swept the NLCS on top of a stunning regular season performance. So in short you're an idiot.

    In 2007 and 2009 they finished second in their division again. And they are contesting with the Indians for first this season. They've "been heard from" plenty. They argument that they just disappeared is incorrect. They've been in contention. Like most good team throughout the history of baseball.

    But then again you show how much you're on your knees for the AL East by saying "wild card coming out of the AL East, though tainted is much better than any othert wild card." Oh, despite the rules of baseball the wild card is "tainted". But a little less so in the AL East either because of your hardon for so much money being spent or just because you hate the Cardinals.

    Again, no consistency. And you ignore arguments and continue on with blathering rhetoric despite the arguments undermining you. No wonder you listen to Slaten, on of the biggest idiots out there.

    My favortite quote of yours from this ridiculously long as useless thread (at least for everything you've said):

    "I dont have an anti Cardinal bias i just do not like them at all, but i hate their fans more."

    And with that gem I'm out. You've made not one baseball argument, not countered one argument of mine against the silly things you've said. You've contradicted yourself tiem and again and shown no understanding for the sport as it is.

    Assuming your next thread will be some sort of whine fest (ironic isn't it that you've done the whining here ad nauseum) about how bad the Cardinals are and how bad their fans are and announcers without evidence or argument - this is the last you'll here from me.

    ironic whining ad nauseum cardinals fans announcers evidence argument cardinals ten time world champs banner ironic whining ad nauseum cardinals fans announcers evidence argument albert pujols ironic whining ad nauseum cardinals fans announcers evidence argument larussa trophy ironic whining ad nauseum cardinals fans announcers evidence argument mark mcgwire
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