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Should the wealthy pay more in taxes?

L.A. Times 2012/11/10 02:59:26
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President Obama said Friday he was open to compromise with Republicans to prevent automatic tax increases and spending cuts by year’s end but would continue to insist on a resolution that includes higher taxes for the wealthiest Americans.

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Read More: http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-obama-d...

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  • Fenabarb 2012/11/10 16:06:28
    Yes
    Fenabarb
    +45
    The rich are lot richer than they used to be, while most of the rest have stayed the same or are poorer because of the rising cost of living. So logic, fairness and common sense dictate that the rich need to pay more in taxes.

    The government should end all tax cuts to the rich, tighten and impose stronger tax laws and with that end the corrupt system of tax evasion through tax havens and eliminating loopholes and deductions that are used by big business and wealthy individuals.

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  • Kikidi 2013/03/12 17:45:16
  • Naked_Christian 2013/02/11 21:35:07
    No
    Naked_Christian
    ...AND yes.

    Taxes are necessary, in a government, to pay war debts. That is the one and only reason that the United States government started taxation in the first place.

    In the past it was the rich that set up charitable funds, built hospitals, built libraries, created orchestras, commissioned artists and craftsmen, paid for research to solve humanity's ills, explored inaccessible parts of the globe and numerous other endeavors.

    There were no need to have the government to force those good works out of the rich.

    There is a proposal that makes perfect sense to me, someone who has not been formally fully educated in the social sciences.

    The flat sales tax.

    Rich people spend more money on things than poor people. (I'm not talking about percentage of income, just dollar-for-dollar.) That is a natural fact.

    We know that whole STATES can be supported on sales tax alone. Texas, for one, does it.

    And no matter how you try, there is no loophole that prevents you from spending money on, at least, food. And who spends the most money on the fanciest of foods? Not the poor.

    The poor would be foolish to spend there money on large amounts of luxury. Who DOES spend such monies?

    The rich.

    It is not right to punish excellence or effort or success. If you do, you disincentivize those...



    ...AND yes.

    Taxes are necessary, in a government, to pay war debts. That is the one and only reason that the United States government started taxation in the first place.

    In the past it was the rich that set up charitable funds, built hospitals, built libraries, created orchestras, commissioned artists and craftsmen, paid for research to solve humanity's ills, explored inaccessible parts of the globe and numerous other endeavors.

    There were no need to have the government to force those good works out of the rich.

    There is a proposal that makes perfect sense to me, someone who has not been formally fully educated in the social sciences.

    The flat sales tax.

    Rich people spend more money on things than poor people. (I'm not talking about percentage of income, just dollar-for-dollar.) That is a natural fact.

    We know that whole STATES can be supported on sales tax alone. Texas, for one, does it.

    And no matter how you try, there is no loophole that prevents you from spending money on, at least, food. And who spends the most money on the fanciest of foods? Not the poor.

    The poor would be foolish to spend there money on large amounts of luxury. Who DOES spend such monies?

    The rich.

    It is not right to punish excellence or effort or success. If you do, you disincentivize those that CAN succeed.

    The rich can STOP acquiring more money without hurting themselves They can just retire. When that happens companies close there doors and those jobs are lost forever. Who would be those that hold those jobs?

    The poor.
    (more)
  • Debra Smith 2013/02/10 00:46:31
  • FeedFwd ~POTL 2012/12/03 19:50:22
    No
    FeedFwd ~POTL
    But they already do in absolute numbers. Should the poor work fewer hours? No, but they generally do.
  • T. James H 2012/11/27 03:34:20
  • chucky 2012/11/18 12:27:51
    No
    chucky
    +1
    No ,why must a person who worked hard, took risks and provides employment pay more tax.If the government feels that he must pay more for his success why dont they take over his business and run it themselves?
  • Naked_C... chucky 2013/02/11 21:39:44
    Naked_Christian
    +1
    In a way, government has taken over the rich man's businesses.

    And the poor man's business.

    The average person spends a good part of the year working to pay the government.
  • chucky Naked_C... 2013/02/12 11:35:25
    chucky
    +1
    Let me simplify Obama punishes people who succeed by taxing them.He rewards bums by giving them what he has taken from one who has succeeded
  • Naked_C... chucky 2013/02/12 19:45:46
    Naked_Christian
    +1
    I would have to agree, but the punishment started ever since the "New Deal".

    punishment deal
  • Jade 2012/11/16 15:48:45
    No
    Jade
    +2
    Here what you may not know about the wealthy and taxes and disposal income. The so called wealthy create jobs (depends on how you define wealthy, as Obama has lumped small businesses barely making it in this category), the less money they have the less jobs they create. But also if you compare two people lets says Obama and Romney, not only did they pay about the same percentage wise in personal income taxes, but Romney paid more in other types of taxes relating to his businesses making his overall tax burden heavier. Also, comparatively wealthy Republicans give over 4 times more to charities then Democrats. I guess that proves R's are more givers than D's (they defin. have entitlement issues). I owned a business, not only did I pay personal income taxes but 27 percent more in business taxes just to operate in the last two years, I had to cut an employee because of it or close, a lot of business owners are facing the same issue. However, the tax burden became so heavy in Illinois (one of the top worse states for small businesses in the country), I closed my business, so four people lost their job. But if taxes were lower, more of my customers not just me would have had job, full time jobs, better paying jobs, and I could have stayed open. Many of my customers moved to Tenn and Florida, where their is no personal income tax. And their doing well. So chew on that....
  • chucky Jade 2012/11/20 05:35:27
    chucky
    +1
    Jade I posed a rhetorical question.The fact is they are not capable of running a business.What is most frightening is that as you pointed out,the unemployment rate will skyrocket.The social implications of being unemployed could lead to chaos.What will you do now?
  • Jade chucky 2012/11/21 02:22:35
    Jade
    +1
    I think were on the same page, I not sure by your answer. Yes, Obama has raised taxes 27 percent over the last 4 years, and tax breaks from Bush are about to expire Jan 1, compounded with Obama care, you are absolutely correct, the social implications of being unemployed is going to lead to chaos. One person on facebook noted how in the last 4 years the crime rate has went way up in her neighborhood, and it use to be a nice place to live, people out at all times of the night and she does not feel safe. People will get more and more desperate, it is a disturbing time and with more darker and dangerous times to follow. Many have turned away from the values that made this country strong, our faith in a country where abundance was possible for all if you worked for it, and the equality was possible not class or racial warfare, and that intellect, success, wisdom and hard work were attributes of a successful person. Now people are looked down upon for those same qualities by the left. I pray they mature and become wise. When children are allowed to vote, the elect Santa except this Santa is more like Satan. The definition of Satan is the destroyer who tears down and does not offer a better substitute in its place.
  • chucky Jade 2012/11/21 10:26:15
    chucky
    +1
    Jade what you say is true.My concern is for my children,I sometimes wonder what caused this reversal of values. That which is wrong is right and that which is right is wrong . Punishing success to reward failure My previous comment was a fictitious scenario where a business is abandoned because it is no longer viable,due to taxation and the economy The government attempts running this business in order to keep unemployment down and obviously fails..
  • Naked_C... chucky 2013/02/11 21:46:45
    Naked_Christian
    +1
    I would read that book.

    Write it.
  • chucky Naked_C... 2013/02/12 19:49:09
    chucky
    How did you know I was writing a book?
  • obama needs to go 2012/11/15 18:04:12
    No
    obama needs to go
    They are taxed 2-3 times before they are taxes again personally! If they are, it'll be handed down to they're employees in the way of layoffs, benifit cuts..etc So before you all jump on the "Popular" things to say, you may wanna consider the fall out of it;) higher unemployment, welfare..etc
  • JCD aka... obama n... 2012/11/17 16:19:04
    JCD aka "biz"
    The top income tax rate was 91% when Eisenhower was in the White House, and the economy was booming.
  • obama n... JCD aka... 2012/11/23 18:44:17
    obama needs to go
    Yea cause industries were still booming! The 1% already pays 40% of the federal income. The 2% pays over 60%. Why do people think that the government DESERVES to be huge & live beyond its means? Why Arnt we all saying that the government should quit giving governments like Egypt billions of dollars a year, stop investing in obama's croni buddies companies & blowing billions of dollars on companies that go out of business in weeks. The governments job isn't to give people a cradle to the grave "safety net" & spending a trillion dollars a year to take care of illegal Allians who just by being here are breaking the law. You will see in these next 4 yrs when unemployment sky rockets & in exchange for easier tmw, the government starts to take our Rights in exchange! America blew it, by electing a failed president for selfish reasons.
  • JCD aka... obama n... 2012/11/24 12:12:44
    JCD aka "biz"
    Thank you.
  • Swampdog PWCM 2012/11/15 17:53:14
    No
    Swampdog PWCM
    Profits employ, taxes destroy! If you think Oblooper is just going to raise the taxes on the wealthy you're crazy, stand by ALL of America here comes a tax hike for EVERYONE, Merry Christmas!
  • JCD aka... Swampdo... 2012/11/17 16:07:56
    JCD aka "biz"
    Profit does not create jobs, demand does.
  • Swampdo... JCD aka... 2012/11/18 17:44:56 (edited)
    Swampdog PWCM
    +1
    Demand, to a degree creates jobs, when Henry Ford began turning out automobiles there was no demand for them, he just made them affordable. Profits keep people working, taxes atop taxes destroy incentive to invest, create and produce. Stand by for 4 more years of depression.
  • JCD aka... Swampdo... 2012/11/18 20:01:00
    JCD aka "biz"
    He made them affordable, and he raised their wages.
    And again, the US economy was prosperous when Eisenhower was in the White House, and the top income tax rate was 91%.
  • Swampdo... JCD aka... 2012/11/18 20:20:40
    Swampdog PWCM
    A little more elaboration please.
  • JCD aka... Swampdo... 2012/11/18 21:15:16
    JCD aka "biz"
    High tax rates did not kill the economy, did they?
  • Swampdo... JCD aka... 2012/11/18 21:22:07
    Swampdog PWCM
    +1
    They are doing it now. In the next few months you will see more and more businesses go under from Obama care and the tax increases, but that's O.K. because that's what America wanted. Make those pesky rich people PAY!
  • Dason JCD aka... 2012/11/20 16:00:04
    Dason
    +1
    Bread was a nickle back then. One could live like a king on 100k a year. Why didn't Clinton "blame" Reagan for handing him a booming economy? Obumbles has done nothing but lie and spend BORROWED money. He will leave office with the country in ruins while he sails off on his yacht. Typical crook politician with a cult following of stooges, soon to be rioting stooges.
  • Naked_C... JCD aka... 2013/02/11 21:51:20
    Naked_Christian
    Have you ever heard of businesses failing because the demand for there product was too high and they could not keep up with it?

    I sure have.

    If you have no profit you can not satisfy demand.
  • Michael S. 2012/11/15 17:15:52 (edited)
    No
    Michael S.
    DILEMMA:
    On an individual level, taxation is extortion at gunpoint, so nobody "should" be forced to pay more in taxes. That said, the left has an important point that it is unjust for government to tax earned income at a higher rate than unearned income. They'd never accept income tax cuts down to 15-18% with no new taxes to offset them though. Similarly, but more correctly, the right (or rather, the conservative base) wouldn't accept a flat-out capital gains tax increase with no tax cuts to offset it.

    Ultimately, the federal government needs to cut HUGE amounts of spending to prevent economic collapse. (Lack of revenue is not the real problem; nothing is ever "enough" for government gone rampant, which is why the government's revnue "needs" have grown so drastically over the past century in the first place.) However, it is difficult to get everyone to concentrate on this at once: The conservative base rightfully wants to address spending, the liberal base is rightfully unsatisfied with the balance of the tax burden, the GOP politicians wrongfully insist on keeping taxes the same, and the Democratic politicians wrongfully insist on increasing the capital gains (or worse, the income) tax. There was a chain email that passed around some time ago, and John Stossel has it on h...















    DILEMMA:
    On an individual level, taxation is extortion at gunpoint, so nobody "should" be forced to pay more in taxes. That said, the left has an important point that it is unjust for government to tax earned income at a higher rate than unearned income. They'd never accept income tax cuts down to 15-18% with no new taxes to offset them though. Similarly, but more correctly, the right (or rather, the conservative base) wouldn't accept a flat-out capital gains tax increase with no tax cuts to offset it.

    Ultimately, the federal government needs to cut HUGE amounts of spending to prevent economic collapse. (Lack of revenue is not the real problem; nothing is ever "enough" for government gone rampant, which is why the government's revnue "needs" have grown so drastically over the past century in the first place.) However, it is difficult to get everyone to concentrate on this at once: The conservative base rightfully wants to address spending, the liberal base is rightfully unsatisfied with the balance of the tax burden, the GOP politicians wrongfully insist on keeping taxes the same, and the Democratic politicians wrongfully insist on increasing the capital gains (or worse, the income) tax. There was a chain email that passed around some time ago, and John Stossel has it on his site here (it's hard to get it posted, so sorry about the link butchering):
    foxbusiness.com SLASH on-air SLASH stossel SLASH sites SLASH foxbusiness.com.on-air.stossel SLASH files SLASH FedGovAndFamilyBudgetDec11_6_0 DOT jpg
    Instead of taking it as a wake-up call, people in the liberal base responded with another chain email that put the focus on the tax burden (I can't find it, but IIRC it was similar in style with a blue background).

    If we want to fix spending, I think we're going to need to address the capital gains/income tax rate gap to get everyone's minds on the same page. It would be unjust to simply raise the capital gains tax to compensate, yet we can't realistically demand a drop in the top income tax bracket to 15-18% either for a number of reasons. (Most importantly, fiat money ensures the government wouldn't have to cut spending to compensate; they'd just have the Fed buy up more Treasuries with "printed" money to compensate instead, and the inflation tax is even worse.)

    NARROW, FOCUSED SOLUTION:
    Instead, I think it would be wise to simplify things and have the two rates "meet in the middle" by eliminating the capital gains tax, making the income tax apply to capital gains and other unearned income as well as earned income, and reducing all income tax brackets by a fixed ratio to compensate (aiming for neutral overall revenue impact for maximum non-partisan popular support). Instituting the same tax rates for earned and unearned income in this way would be a pretty quick and easy incremental improvement with a number of consequences, most good:

    First, the bad: It would ultimately mean a higher rate for unearned income, thereby hampering the liquidity of the markets as people become more reluctant to sell and lock in a tax hit for any particular year. On the surface, it may also appear that retired seniors might also see a larger burden, but this probably isn't true: With the reduction in income taxes to compensate for capital gains being rolled into them, the average senior's average tax rate would probably remain comparable.

    Now, the good: The poor would be essentially unaffected, since they pay virtually no income taxes. The upper-middle class would be largely unaffected as well, since their income comes from a balance of wages/salaries and investments, and the cuts to earned income rates would probably balance out the raises to unearned income rates on average. Instead, the middle class would see a tax cut, and the super-wealthy would finally pay the same rates as the upper-middle class to compensate.

    Now, the really good: Leveling out earned/unearned tax rates would get everyone on the same page on this issue, so we could finally focus on cutting spending for once. Since the earned/unearned gap is currently used as an excuse to dodge spending issues and push for higher taxes, resolving it in an even-handed way (as above) would help us dodge the possibility of liberal politicians using it as an excuse to simply raise capital gains rates (or worse, confuse people and raise the higher income tax brackets, thereby hammering the upper-middle class instead of the Romneys and Obamas and Buffetts of the world).


    I'd love for tax rates to be where they should be (zero), but in the meantime, I imagine that both the left and the right could support the above solution to the earned/unearned rate gap, which would let us concentrate more on the spending crisis from there on out. We'd still probably fight over alternatives to the progressive income tax, but at least there would be one less thing to fight over.
    (more)
  • Watermusicranger 2012/11/15 16:58:22 (edited)
    No
    Watermusicranger
    +1
    No one should pay more. We need to get rid of the Tax Plan as we know it..... We should go with a straight flat Sales Tax. Minus food and necessities. No one in America should be exempt either.
  • Groucho... Watermu... 2012/11/16 07:13:02
    Groucho Marxist
    +1
    snowball's chance in he//
  • Soup Man 2012/11/15 16:47:58
    No
    Soup Man
    +1
    Impose a flat TAX is the only way to go stop the F-N class war
  • Groucho... Soup Man 2012/11/16 07:14:06
    Groucho Marxist
    +1
    flat tax penalize the poorest of the poor. never happen.
  • Soup Man Groucho... 2012/11/16 23:25:17
    Soup Man
    Now
  • Groucho... Soup Man 2012/11/18 07:47:27
    Groucho Marxist
    Don't hold your breath. And by the way:
    NEWS FLASH !!!! The class war started with Reagan and the middle class is now fighting back against the modern day robber barons.
  • John Hall 2012/11/15 16:42:37
    No
    John Hall
    Let the Bush tax cut's expire and go back to the Clinton yrs of taxes . In this country it's we the people not the rich people and since we have so many people on the goverment tit it's we the people that should pay more in taxes .
  • Birthpangs John Hall 2012/11/15 23:46:47
  • John Hall Birthpangs 2012/11/16 02:57:20
    John Hall
    +1
    Yah I know it's a myth I was being a smartass to the democrats on SH . I do think that taxes should be raised some for all people and start cutting waist in the goverment and reform the entitlement programs .
  • Groucho... John Hall 2012/11/16 07:14:55
    Groucho Marxist
    +1
    Middle class has been beaten down enough. Raise taxes on the people who prospered during the Bush Recession and leave the struggling middle class alone.
  • John Hall Groucho... 2012/11/16 07:29:26
    John Hall
    It is we the people but we need to go to a flat or fair tax and get rid of the tax system we have now.
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