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Should Roger Clemens Make the Hall of Fame?

Sports 2012/06/19 16:00:00
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Legendary baseball pitcher Roger Clemens may have overcome the toughest obstacle of his career and, ironically, it was off the baseball field. Clemens was found not guilty on all six counts of perjury on Monday, in relation to the government's 2008 hearing about performance enhancing drugs in sports. Many people argue this whole saga dragged out way too long. Even more say the government should have been trying to prosecute real criminals and targeting bigger issues in America, as opposed to a retired baseball player that made some poor choices.

In the end, the federal government couldn't prosecute Clemens, but that doesn't mean seven-time Cy Young winner hasn't already been convicted in the court of public opinion. Clemens is definitely one of the greatest pitchers of all time, with numerous stops throughout his career -- and perhaps none more famous than his stint with the New York Yankees that saw him capture World Series Titles. But that won't stop some baseball writers from refusing to vote for him come Hall of Fame time.

Clemens has the performance enhancing drugs cloud over his career now and that could keep him out of the Hall of Fame for good. He was acquitted of all charges, but his public image took a severe hit. Gone was the fan favorite pitcher. Instead, Clemens became more known for his quotes about 'misremembering,' his alleged steroid use and an apparent affair with a country singer despite being a married man. It's important to keep in mind that Clemens does have Hall of Fame numbers and accomplishments, but his character will forever be in question by those who decide if and when he gets baseball's ultimate honor. We're sure Roger Clemens hopes those voters 'misremember' certain things too.

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  • joe mauro 2012/06/20 01:40:13
    Yes
    joe mauro
    its a witch hunt
  • Brother Bo 2012/06/20 01:05:33
    Yes
    Brother Bo
    Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!
    Is that enough?
  • Catita 2012/06/20 00:43:12
    No
    Catita
    even if, he was "the best pitcher of all times" he doesn't deserve to be in the Hall of Fame.
  • MarinerFH 2012/06/20 00:03:23
  • Wolverineland 2012/06/19 23:08:24 (edited)
    Yes
    Wolverineland
    +3
    But I also believe Pete Rose should too. pete rose
  • Tony 2012/06/19 21:36:55
    Yes
    Tony
    Especially after this circus!
  • bill 2012/06/19 21:32:42
    Yes
    bill
    Yes! And the Damn government should keep its nose out of baseball and everything else, for that matter!
  • tom C 2012/06/19 20:21:27
    Yes
    tom  C
    he earned his hall of fame status.....and congress needs to stop wasting tax dollars on
    these stupid side shows...
  • Wulfdane 2012/06/19 20:01:22 (edited)
    No
    Wulfdane
    +1
    Clemons was found innocent of pejury, that doesn't change allegations of steriod use.

    "Beyond a reasonable doubt" applies only to the government, not private organizations.

    If the Hall of Fame believes he used steriods, then he should not be inducted into the HoF. Otherwise they should let him in.
  • beachbum Wulfdane 2012/06/20 00:14:25
    beachbum
    +2
    Curious - what about all those guys who admitted to congress they had used drugs - should they be out also? Clemons was pitching to those guys.
  • the judgebigdogeagle-~PWCM~JLA 2012/06/19 19:44:19
    Yes
    the judgebigdogeagle-~PWCM~JLA
    +2
    Found Not Guilty. He earned it even though, He left Houston to be a Yankee first..
  • Ed 2012/06/19 19:25:41
  • Denny 2012/06/19 19:04:48
    Yes
    Denny
    +1
    This steroids thing is a bunch of crap. Even if he did them so what compared to what footballers used and you hear nothing about. They even have at least one player who died from them.
  • Lanikai 2012/06/19 19:01:14
    Yes
    Lanikai
    +3
    After 5 years of this trial and investigation -and Innocent of all charges, PLEASE let him in .

    He deserves it , for his career AND his standing up to this disgusting witchhunt for 5 years.
  • Frank 2012/06/19 18:54:03
    Yes
    Frank
    +1
    Absolutely he should. .............Nothing like being accused by a bunch of power and money hungry old men that have have so many crooked bones in their closet it won't shut...... Cudo's to the Jury.......
  • Superman 2012/06/19 18:44:16
    Yes
    Superman
    +1
    All PED players with eligible numbers should go in.
  • Lizard King 2012/06/19 18:22:24
  • Mikel_mad2002 2012/06/19 18:21:15
    Yes
    Mikel_mad2002
    +1
    His actions on the diamond are what counts
  • Joe The Economist 2012/06/19 18:20:17
    Yes
    Joe The Economist
    +1
    The poll took the wrong answer. The option ARE YOU KIDDING ME? wasn't offered.

    The person who should be in the Hall Of Fame would be the chemist who created the drugs. Baseball banned Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose and let in cheat like this? Who seriously damaged the credibility of the game. Joe for not taking money or Pete for not betting on baseball in which he played. This guy took drugs fully intending to change the course of the game in which he played.

    Judge Landis has left the building.
  • Freeranger 2012/06/19 18:19:08
    No
    Freeranger
    +2
    No. When you compare him to the great (and drug free players) like Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, Carl Yastrzemski, Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, and so on......he's like tainted meat that you'd have to throw in the can. Clemens was a talented player who's professional integrity went south.
    IMO, he doesn't make the cut.
  • Lizard ... Freeranger 2012/06/19 18:25:32 (edited)
  • Superman Lizard ... 2012/06/19 18:46:36
    Superman
    +1
    I'm for Clemens in the Hall but I thought he was found not guilt of lying to the government.
  • Lizard ... Superman 2012/06/19 18:56:01
  • Superman Lizard ... 2012/06/19 19:10:38
    Superman
    +1
    This is where I say taking steroids and you jump up and down and go ah ha!

    Problem is that its not that simple, and with legal cases it never is.

    The state wasn't able to prove that he lied about taking steroids. Thats not the same as saying that he didn't take steroids. He was found not guilty of lying, not innocent of steroid abuse. There is still a lot of window left open for the possibility of steroid abuse.

    Furthermore, OJ Simpson was found not guilty of murder. I assume you believe that? Casey Anthony found not guilty of murdering her child, the public fully supports that decision right? And then there are the guys put away and later released as innocent.

    The point is that Clemens is free of perjury so far as the government is concerned. Thats a far way away from being completely innocent of PED use, especially when it comes to public opinion and more importantly HOF voter opinion. Had McGwire never said a word when taking his post with the Cardinals they'd still have no substantial evidence on his use. However he was held out.

    Maybe you're just a Clemens lover with doe eyes . . . but stop being that naive about how the Courts work and what their decisions mean.

    Toward the end of his career he used. Oh well.
  • Lizard ... Superman 2012/06/19 19:41:49
  • Superman Lizard ... 2012/06/19 19:55:19
    Superman
    +1
    And you're trying to ignore how the system works.

    I'm not comparing murder to PED use, that shows that you're not trying to understand my point. I am however illustrating how the legal system works. You have to prove 100% that someone did what they were accused of, any doubt is supposed to lead to a not guilty decision. Doubt doesn't mean that the individual is for sure innocent of what they were charged with. Savvy?

    What was really decided in this trial was that McNamee wasn't a trust worthy witness. The jury doubted him. And for that Clemens should rightly be found not guilty. That doesn't mean he's innocent.

    Your second comment has no bearing on the first really. Yes, he has HOF numbers. I haven't once argued that suspected or known PED users shouldn't be in the Hall. On the contrary, I have lengthy arguments for them to be put in. But, if you were talking to a person that was anti PED candidates they would simply say to you that his numbers are false because of the PED use. That he has HOF numbers isn't the discussion ever on this topic. Its do PEDs taint those numbers. Thats the discussion you'll need to have with someone who cares.

    As I said, McGwire/Sosa/Bonds/Clemens/Ra... they should all go in. PEDs don't bother me and they all have the numbers. My beef with you is purely the idea that a not guilty of perjury verdict is somehow a legal exhoneration that Clemens used. Its simply not.
  • Lizard ... Superman 2012/06/20 12:30:29
  • Superman Lizard ... 2012/06/20 13:56:47
    Superman
    So in other words you're going to put your fingers in your ears anytime someone trashes your stats because he was a PED guy rather than having a solid rebuttal?

    Got it.
  • USAF Vet Superman 2012/06/20 07:38:09
    USAF Vet
    Please....
    stop
  • Superman USAF Vet 2012/06/20 13:55:28
    Superman
    Well why don't you elaborate? Or can you?
  • Freeranger Lizard ... 2012/06/19 18:59:39
    Freeranger
    +1
    I'm afraid our mileages will have to vary if you don't mind. Being found guilty in a court of law, does not, IMO necessarily mean he didn't dope----smoke and fire and all that. I'll just conclude by stating I appreciate certain differences.
    No offense, I don't wish to diminish your affection for him.
  • Lizard ... Freeranger 2012/06/19 19:42:09
  • Freeranger Lizard ... 2012/06/19 21:06:47
    Freeranger
    +1
    Seriously man.....I get you. However, the question which remains always will be how he arrived at them. I don't profess to know. It's just friggin' ugly, and I suspect, he doped. I respect your position, I'm just not willing to change my own.
  • Lizard ... Freeranger 2012/06/20 12:24:53
  • beachbum Lizard ... 2012/06/20 00:16:44
    beachbum
    +1
    The people who are saying he shouldn't be admitted are forgetting the fact that Clemons was pitching to guys who admitted to congress they used the stuff........so, none of them should, therefore, be admitted, either.
  • Superman Freeranger 2012/06/19 20:06:29
    Superman
    Though I'm disagreeing with Lenny on a few things I'll disagree with you here too.

    - I have yet to see the quantitative math that evidences PED use altered anyones numbers. Best I've seen is that a slugger may get two ectra feet on a shot.

    - PED users aren't alone in the history of baseball as far as "professional integrity" going south. The Hall already includes known cheats, racists who helped keep some of the best players out of the game for decades, and people whos personal integrity is largely suspect. I have a thing against selective enforcement of morality. The Hall is already "tainted" as it is (including people whos numbers shouldn't have them there). I feel its better to let them all in and just be honest about the era in the information provided.

    - The issue with PEDs isn't actually what they help you do on the field, its that they aren't healthy. There are a ton of supplements allowed today that help assist performance. Surgeries that put players back on the field. Wasn't it Bartolo Colon that went to Europe to get an experimental treatment not allowed here yet that put him back on the field?

    - I think the issue is blurred by concern over short term numbers rather than what the reality is. I think PEDs major advantage is helping players stay on the field ra...

    Though I'm disagreeing with Lenny on a few things I'll disagree with you here too.

    - I have yet to see the quantitative math that evidences PED use altered anyones numbers. Best I've seen is that a slugger may get two ectra feet on a shot.

    - PED users aren't alone in the history of baseball as far as "professional integrity" going south. The Hall already includes known cheats, racists who helped keep some of the best players out of the game for decades, and people whos personal integrity is largely suspect. I have a thing against selective enforcement of morality. The Hall is already "tainted" as it is (including people whos numbers shouldn't have them there). I feel its better to let them all in and just be honest about the era in the information provided.

    - The issue with PEDs isn't actually what they help you do on the field, its that they aren't healthy. There are a ton of supplements allowed today that help assist performance. Surgeries that put players back on the field. Wasn't it Bartolo Colon that went to Europe to get an experimental treatment not allowed here yet that put him back on the field?

    - I think the issue is blurred by concern over short term numbers rather than what the reality is. I think PEDs major advantage is helping players stay on the field rather than hitting more homeruns or getting more strikeouts. Those numbers have always fluctuated over time. I think players used to try and stay on the field. I think smaller new parks and four expansion teams helped assist in season home run numbers more than PEDs.

    - But again, scientifically the whole things a grey area. I think most people react with an emotion response toward the perception that "holy" numbers are being betrayed when that may not really be happening. And in a time when we may be 5-10 years away from safe and healthy PEDS (supplements) that will do the same thing.
    (more)
  • prosperhappily 2012/06/19 18:16:26
    Yes
    prosperhappily
    +2
    He definitely has the numbers.

    As for the steroids, no one has proven he actually took them.
  • patsimmons 2012/06/19 18:12:37
    No
    patsimmons
    All the roid cheaters do not get in, regardless of numbers or apologies!
  • Lizard ... patsimmons 2012/06/19 18:18:51
  • Selketskiss 2012/06/19 17:32:56
    Yes
    Selketskiss
    +2
    Sure I see no reason why he should not. Do people really think there are hall of famers from the past that did not do these and other drugs...

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