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Should Italy remove crucifixes from their classrooms? Should the European Union dictate to Italy laws and values that are not Italian?
Marlow ~ Let There Be Light November 07, 2009 14:24:14
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This article upset me. Who the hell are the Europeans to dictate to a soverign country what it can or cannot do in terms of its values and culture? This is a warning shot to Americans that a global government is out there in the making that without allegiance to our constitution or representing American values may one day may one day dictate to us what we can or cannot do. Here's the article:
Italy to Keep Crucifixes in Schools, Defying EU Court Ruling
By Steve Scherer
Nov. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Italy will ignore an “unreal” European court ruling that bans crucifixes from state-run schools as it appeals the decision, Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi said.
“It’s not binding,” Berlusconi said of the ruling after a Cabinet meeting in Rome today. “Whatever the outcome of the appeal, there’s no obligatory force to the decision.”
This week’s European Court of Human Rights ruling stems from a 2006 complaint by a woman who said crosses displayed in the classrooms of her children violated the way she wanted to raise them. Her children were age 11 and 13 in 2001 when she first filed a complaint locally.
The Strasbourg, France-based court said the crosses “restricted the right of parents to educate their children in conformity with their convictions, and the right of children to believe or not to believe.”
According to the rules of the court, member states must respect final rulings. This week’s decision is not yet final.
The appeal, which the Cabinet today agreed to present, will be reviewed by a panel of judges, according to a court spokeswoman.
If the appeal is rejected, the current ruling becomes final. If the appeal is accepted, a 17-judge chamber will review the case and their decision will be binding, the spokeswoman said.
The case is: Lautsi v. Italy, 30814/06, European Court of Human Rights.
To contact the reporter on this story: Steve Scherer in Rome at sscherer@bloomberg.net
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601085&sid;=aGB4tnk6...
Italy to Keep Crucifixes in Schools, Defying EU Court Ruling
By Steve Scherer
Nov. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Italy will ignore an “unreal” European court ruling that bans crucifixes from state-run schools as it appeals the decision, Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi said.
“It’s not binding,” Berlusconi said of the ruling after a Cabinet meeting in Rome today. “Whatever the outcome of the appeal, there’s no obligatory force to the decision.”
This week’s European Court of Human Rights ruling stems from a 2006 complaint by a woman who said crosses displayed in the classrooms of her children violated the way she wanted to raise them. Her children were age 11 and 13 in 2001 when she first filed a complaint locally.
The Strasbourg, France-based court said the crosses “restricted the right of parents to educate their children in conformity with their convictions, and the right of children to believe or not to believe.”
According to the rules of the court, member states must respect final rulings. This week’s decision is not yet final.
The appeal, which the Cabinet today agreed to present, will be reviewed by a panel of judges, according to a court spokeswoman.
If the appeal is rejected, the current ruling becomes final. If the appeal is accepted, a 17-judge chamber will review the case and their decision will be binding, the spokeswoman said.
The case is: Lautsi v. Italy, 30814/06, European Court of Human Rights.
To contact the reporter on this story: Steve Scherer in Rome at sscherer@bloomberg.net
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601085&sid;=aGB4tnk6...
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Top Comment
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Italy should defy this European government and keep the crucifixes up in their classroom. No other country has a right to dictate another country's values.
Tail wags dog. Nations within the EU are ceding their sovereignty. This is what Obama wants for the United States also.View thread
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None of the above. Please comment.
No one forced Italy to become part of the Council of Europe, or the EU.
If your country is a member of the Council of Europe, you can't have the death penalty or corporal punishment in schools. Possibly not castration of rapists. or sentencing 13-year old children to life in prison, without parole.
We like it that way.
You know, we had two World Wars in Europe, tens of millions of people died, you Americans haven't had war on your own soil since the Civil War. Makes people want to have peace, unite, possibly give up part of their national sovereignty to elected (European Parliament) and not elected bodies, like your Supreme Court (European Court of Human Rights), probably also be less enthusiastic about fighting new wars everywhere which 99.5% of Americans only fight by proxy (if you had conscription, you would think twice before invading other countries).
I've checked. Italy is a secular Republic. The Italian Constitutional Court had ruled that the crucifix has both a religious meaning and a cultural value, so even if a non-Christian child doesn't agree with its religious meaning, he/she has to accept its cultural value.
The Strasbourg Court of Human Rights (again, not a EU body) has ruled that it only has a religious meaning and discriminates against non-Christians.
In France, we eliminated crucifixes in 1905, when France became a secular state, it's called separation of churches and state. Only in the east of France, which was at that time a German province, is there no such separation, and Catholic priests, Protestant ministers and Jewish rabbis are public employees, civil servants, and paid by the State. Possibly also Muslim imams in the future.
Italy should defy this European government and keep the crucifixes up in their classroom. No other country has a right to dictate another country's values.
Italy should defy this European government and keep the crucifixes up in their classroom. No other country has a right to dictate another country's values.
None of the above. Please comment.
Italy should defy this European government and keep the crucifixes up in their classroom. No other country has a right to dictate another country's values.
None of the above. Please comment.
This is saying that Italy is catholic like Iran is muslim: it will next start a war against arab countries and Israel on the grounds of them not bein g christian, and kick out all non-christians from italy. Every man should have the right to a religion-free, complete education, everywhere around the world. If in some countries this is not possible, im pretty sure italy isnt one of those.
Italy should defy this European government and keep the crucifixes up in their classroom. No other country has a right to dictate another country's values.
None of the above. Please comment.
I guess if those are the rules then so be it. But I thought EU was an economic agreement, not a cultural one.
And fine, I have no desire to get involved in another country's issues. I was just speculating on what that would mean in respect to the US. I assume then you europeans will not stick your nose into our country's issues.
Italy should defy this European government and keep the crucifixes up in their classroom. No other country has a right to dictate another country's values.
Remove all signs of Christianity in the Vatican / Rome?
I Think the Romans tried to do this 2000 years ago!!
Italy should defy this European government and keep the crucifixes up in their classroom. No other country has a right to dictate another country's values.
I think that Italy should fight for this, they are the seat of Catholicism, whether you follow it or not, its their tradition and they must fight for that tradition. From the most elaborate to the most simple, its about faith and commitment, something we all need now.