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Does California have the right to ban “gay conversion” therapy sessions?

L.A. Times 2012/12/04 17:11:47
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A federal judge on Monday blocked California from enforcing its new gay-conversion ban on therapy that seeks to change the sexual orientation of minors from gay to straight.

The Los Angeles Times' Sacramento Bureau Chief Evan Halper reported that U.S. District Judge William Shubb ruled that the new law, SB 1172, signed by Gov. Jerry Brown earlier this year, may inhibit the 1st Amendment rights of therapists who oppose homosexuality. The judge signed a temporary injunction that prohibits the state from enforcing the ban, the first of its kind in the nation, against the three plaintiffs in the suit pending trial.

jerry brown

Read More: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/12/la-n...

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  • ProudProgressive 2012/12/04 17:47:05
    Yes
    ProudProgressive
    +61
    "Gay conversion" is not scientifically valid and is in fact nothing more than an attempt to brainwash individuals by religious extremists. It does not benefit anyone (except those who make money by selling this nonsense) and poses a danger to any individual unfortunate enough to fall into their clutches.

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  • Martyr4Christ 2013/04/18 14:35:42
    No
    Martyr4Christ
    +1
    There is WAY more to this than meets the eye, and affects the rights of parents across the board!

    PLEASE read the official bill here: http://leginfo.legislature.ca... ,
    AND what NARTH – (National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality) thinks about it here: http://narth.com/2012/05/cali...

    BEFORE answering.

    This ban could potentially INCREASE sexual abuse of minors and PROTECT abusers by limiting the scope of practice of professionals like psychiatrists, SCHOOL psychologists, therapists, nurses etc, from providing "reparative" therapy to minors and punishing them through discipline administered via their license holding agency,from providing "reparative" therapy to minors.

    This may cause those who suffer from UNWANTED same-sex attractions to be brainwashed to accept homosexual behavior, thus helping to mold, accept and ENCOURAGE homosexuality behavior into a child's life AGAINST THEIR WILL.
  • hajkorten 2013/03/05 00:05:20 (edited)
    No
    hajkorten
    +2
    Clinical science has also documented hundreds of cases where homosexuals have changed their sexual orientation. The evidence is overwhelming. The truth is that ex-gay organizations like Exodus International (www.exodus.to) offer real hope to individuals with unwanted same-sex attractions. Many individuals have overcome homosexual behavior and desires. A significant percentage have changed their sexual orientation, married a person of the opposite sex, and raised families.

    A sexual orientation change from homosexual to heterosexual is partly a reparative process and partly a cognitive process. Motivation is the main part of the cognitive process. The motivation usually comes from religious beliefs, aspirations of a heterosexual marriage, and from a fact that gay propaganda avoids like the plague, which is that many who enter the gay world find its lifestyle very destructive. The main part of the reparative process is to understand and deal with the memories and hurt of same-sex rejection in childhood. Often there was sexual abuse that contributed to the unwanted same-sex attractions
  • Katsumi33 2012/12/30 04:42:59
    Yes
    Katsumi33
    +2
    Gay therapy conversion is just an outdated idea that came from a time when being gay was unacceptable. In today's society it is practically as antique and useless as the corset!
  • hajkorten Katsumi33 2013/03/05 00:20:15
    hajkorten
    +1
    The psychoanalytical theory is the historical position, which implicates a detached, rejecting or absent father, often along with a close bond to the mother, as working, on the conscious and unconscious level, against a secure sexual identity. Also contributing to this can be a mother who has animosity toward the father, or men in general, and who works to present him negatively, and to make the child side with her.


    One of the earliest studies supporting this position was that of Irving Bieber and associates. Comparison of 106 homosexuals with 100 male heterosexuals showed that mothers of the former had enmeshed seductive type relationships with their sons, while their fathers were detached, distant or rejecting. This study was contested by some who charged the researchers with bias, but a further study by Ray B. Evans, which also compared homosexuals with heterosexuals, reported similar results, this time among self-identified homosexuals who had never sought treatment.


    Based upon his work with 200 male homosexuals, Gerard van den Aardweg stated that 79 percent described their mother as "overanxious", or "overconcerned" about them; their safety, health, and being overly sentimental when they met with some hardship, as well as manifesting other aspects of over-mothering. I...




    The psychoanalytical theory is the historical position, which implicates a detached, rejecting or absent father, often along with a close bond to the mother, as working, on the conscious and unconscious level, against a secure sexual identity. Also contributing to this can be a mother who has animosity toward the father, or men in general, and who works to present him negatively, and to make the child side with her.


    One of the earliest studies supporting this position was that of Irving Bieber and associates. Comparison of 106 homosexuals with 100 male heterosexuals showed that mothers of the former had enmeshed seductive type relationships with their sons, while their fathers were detached, distant or rejecting. This study was contested by some who charged the researchers with bias, but a further study by Ray B. Evans, which also compared homosexuals with heterosexuals, reported similar results, this time among self-identified homosexuals who had never sought treatment.


    Based upon his work with 200 male homosexuals, Gerard van den Aardweg stated that 79 percent described their mother as "overanxious", or "overconcerned" about them; their safety, health, and being overly sentimental when they met with some hardship, as well as manifesting other aspects of over-mothering. In addition, in 71 percent of homosexual cases, "the most important factor was the father's detachedness or nonparticipation in the son's upbringing. The fathers of 38 percent of the men were so hypercritical that the sons were made to feel either rejected and/or inferior.


    Another study of about 1500 homosexuals showed much less influence by the mother, while far more reported an unaffectionate or detached father, and approximately half of homosexuals reported they had negative feelings toward their fathers, versus 29 percent of heterosexuals.

    Childhood sexual abuse is well attested to demonstrate a correlation to the incidence of homosexuality among those affected by it. A large national survey of almost 35,000 Americans showed that more than three times as many men and women who had been sexually abused as children became homosexuals, versus that of heterosexuals. Another study reported that 58 percent of male adolescents who later became homosexuals suffered sexual abuse as children,while 90 percent who did not suffer sexual abuse identified themselves as heterosexuals. In addition, 43 percent of male homosexuals reported sexual activity with another male during the ages of 10-12, versus 9 percent of heterosexuals.[18]
    (more)
  • holly g... Katsumi33 2013/04/18 17:54:07
    holly go lightly
    So if a person wants it the should not be allowed to have it .How Liberty minded of you.
  • Jaison Agy 2012/12/29 15:01:28
    Yes
    Jaison Agy
    Yes they have right to ban the gay conversation & i don't think usa has any shortage of girls that make guys turn to a gay
  • DeejaySpaniel 2012/12/26 12:48:32
    Yes
    DeejaySpaniel
    +2
    Far more dangerous and harmful than being gay ever could be.
  • hajkorten DeejayS... 2013/03/05 00:22:42
    hajkorten
    +1
    (Redirected from Sexual Abuse Being a Contributing Factor for Homosexuality)


    Dr. Jeffrey Satinover, M.D.
    In 1999, Dr. Jeffrey Satinover, M.D. wrote the following regarding the position of sexual abuse being a contributing factor for homosexuality:
    “ Many studies demonstrate a sadly disproportionate extent of sexual abuse in the childhoods of homosexual men, suggesting at the least that both homosexual unhappiness and homosexuality itself derive from common causes.. ”
    In 2001, the journal Archives of Sexual Behavior published a study entitled Comparative data of childhood and adolescence molestation in heterosexual and homosexual persons. The abstract for this article states the following:
    “ In research with 942 nonclinical adult participants, gay men and lesbian women reported a significantly higher rate of childhood molestation than did heterosexual men and women. Forty-six percent of the homosexual men in contrast to 7% of the heterosexual men reported homosexual molestation. Twenty-two percent of lesbian women in contrast to 1% of heterosexual women reported homosexual molestation. This research is apparently the first survey that has reported substantial homosexual molestation of girls.

    In 1998, Dr. William C. Holmes, M.D. and Dr. Gail B. Slap, M.D. reported in the medi...









    (Redirected from Sexual Abuse Being a Contributing Factor for Homosexuality)


    Dr. Jeffrey Satinover, M.D.
    In 1999, Dr. Jeffrey Satinover, M.D. wrote the following regarding the position of sexual abuse being a contributing factor for homosexuality:
    “ Many studies demonstrate a sadly disproportionate extent of sexual abuse in the childhoods of homosexual men, suggesting at the least that both homosexual unhappiness and homosexuality itself derive from common causes.. ”
    In 2001, the journal Archives of Sexual Behavior published a study entitled Comparative data of childhood and adolescence molestation in heterosexual and homosexual persons. The abstract for this article states the following:
    “ In research with 942 nonclinical adult participants, gay men and lesbian women reported a significantly higher rate of childhood molestation than did heterosexual men and women. Forty-six percent of the homosexual men in contrast to 7% of the heterosexual men reported homosexual molestation. Twenty-two percent of lesbian women in contrast to 1% of heterosexual women reported homosexual molestation. This research is apparently the first survey that has reported substantial homosexual molestation of girls.

    In 1998, Dr. William C. Holmes, M.D. and Dr. Gail B. Slap, M.D. reported in the medical journal JAMA the following:
    “ Adolescent boys, particularly those victimized by males, were up to 7 times more likely to identify themselves as homosexual or bisexual than peers who had not been abused

    In 1997, the researcher Gundlach studied the issue of childhood sexual molestation in regards to lesbians and according the medical researchers Gundlach found the following:
    “ Gundlach (1977) surveyed 225 lesbian and 233 heterosexual women, and found that 30% of the heterosexual women and 21% of the lesbians had been raped. Of the 30 women who had been raped before the age of 14, 26 had an adult homosexual orientation while 9 had an adult heterosexual orientation. ”
    In addition, the abstract for the Gundlach study states the following additional detail:
    “ Sixteen of the 17 girls, age 4 to 16, molested or seduced (6 for a long time) by a relative or close family friend are lesbians as adults.

    Peter LaBarbera's statement above concerning overcoming homosexuality certainly has some evidence supporting it. For example, in 1980 a study was published in the American Journal of Psychiatry and eleven men participated in this study. The study reported that eleven homosexual men became heterosexuals "without explicit treatment and/or long-term psychotherapy" through their participation in a Pentecostal church. The results of this study are not surprising since Christian faith has shown itself to be effective in combating drug addiction. For example, Christian group Teen Challenge reported the following:
    “ Teen Challenge claims of a 70% cure rate for the drug addicts graduating from their program attracted the attention of the U.S. Federal Government in 1973. Most secular drug rehabilitation programs only experienced a cure rate of 1-15% of their graduates. The National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA), part of the U.S. Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, funded the first year of this study to evaluate the long term results of the Teen Challenge program. ”
    Teen Challenge has a number of studies that indicate the high effectiveness of their drug treatment program compared to other programs. Studies indicate that consumers of secular counseling psychology for alcoholism receive hardly any benefit at all.
    (more)
  • Mtg303 2012/12/26 07:40:34 (edited)
    Yes
    Mtg303
    +2
    Yes California has the right and obligation to ban such therapy. Any type of "conversion" therapy administered to minor children and teenagers has the potential to become abusive and dangerous to those being "converted". Given the past history of specialty schools and programs in the US investigated through the US GAO and the passed Stop Child Abuse in Residential Programs for Teens Act of 2008 (H.R. 6358), how could gay-conversion therapy possibly be a good idea?.

    http://georgemiller.house.gov...

    Why do we need such laws? Ask any survivor of a WWASP or similar program in the US or abroad about the psychological, physical and sexual abuse that happens in conversion programs and therapies. Ask them how are their family relationships now and whom do they trust. Parents considering conversion therapy for their minor child/youth should search through the message boards of survivors from these programs. Many of these people were hurt deeply. The people overseeing these programs went largely unpunished for their crimes and made millions in profits.

    http://caica.org/index.htm
  • hajkorten Mtg303 2013/03/05 00:26:44
    hajkorten
    +1
    Self-described “gay activist” and speaker Jacob Breslow said that children can properly be “the object of our attraction.” He further objectified children, suggesting that pedophiles needn’t gain consent from a child to have sex with “it” any more than we need consent from a shoe to wear it. He then used graphic, slang language to favorably describe the act of climaxing (ejaculating) “on or with” a child. No one in attendance objected to this explicit depiction of child sexual assault. There was even laughter.



    Dr. Berlin says pedophilia is just another “sexual orientation.” Some of the “minor attracted” conference-goers insisted that they were “born that way.” Sound familiar?
  • hajkorten Mtg303 2013/03/05 00:30:56
    hajkorten
    You must be homosexuell to love boys


    Again, not surprising when you consider that one of Jennings’s ideological mentors is “gay” activist pioneer Harry Hay. “One of the people that’s always inspired me is Harry Hay,” he has said glowingly.

    What did Mr. Hay think? I’ll let him speak for himself. In 1983, while addressing the pedophile North American Man Boy Love Association (NAMBLA), Hay said the following:

    “[I]t seems to me that in the gay community the people who should be running interference for NAMBLA are the parents and friends of gays. Because if the parents and friends of gays are truly friends of gays, they would know from their gay kids that the relationship with an older man is precisely what 13-, 14-, and 15-year-old kids need more than anything else in the world. And they would be welcoming this, and welcoming the opportunity for young gay kids to have the kind of experience that they would need.”

    (Oddly, there’s another “gay” activist group, Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays, or PFLAG, that frequently partners with GLSEN. I wonder where they came up with the catchy title.)
  • hajkorten Mtg303 2013/03/06 23:13:25
    hajkorten
    +1
    YOU MAYBE ARE RIGHT ABOUT THAT
    • Geoffrey Cornish, a well-respected Solana Beach, California therapist was sentenced to 23 years in prison in September, 2001 for sexually molesting boys who came to him for therapy. Cornish, who is HIV-positive, was also a coach for the Torrey Pines High School surf team. Cornish told police he had been molested himself by a Boy Scout leader for three years when he was living in England.
  • Martyr4... hajkorten 2013/04/18 13:52:09
    Martyr4Christ
    +1
    What a sad phenomenon. Interestingly, EVERY single gay/lesbian I have ever known mentions sexual abuse in their youth, but then goes on to DISMISS the idea that there may be a relation between the two. Perhaps the pain from such traumatic experiences as a youth is so intense, they fear fear facing it.
    Additionally, these sick, evil acts were likely committed by adults that these kids trusted, which explains the anger manifested by the gay community.

    If more gays would speak out about the abuse, even anonymously, it would give others that were abused the courage to as well, and PREVENT even MORE innocent children from falling victim to sexual predators.

    I hope that these victims realize that what happened to them is NOT their fault, and they did NOT deserve it. And there is nothing to be ashamed of. What they need and deserve is healing and someone(who is caring and stable) to listen and help them through the pain.
  • MrSexyPants 2012/12/23 01:24:33
    Yes
    MrSexyPants
    +3
    hell yeah they do! "gay-conversion therapy" is basically just brainwashing! i can't believe people still do that. you can't fight who you're truly attracted to. Try and cover it up, but it's always gonna be there...
  • hajkorten MrSexyP... 2013/03/05 00:11:12
    hajkorten
    the results of an intensive survey of a large number of homosexuals reveals that the most popular places for sodomy and other perverted sex acts are essentially anywhere that homosexuals congregate, whether in private or public,

    (1) public rest rooms, where "glory holes" are cut out of stall partitions so that men may anonymously commit sodomy and fellatio on each other;

    (2) pornographic movie houses and bookstores and peep shows;

    (3) bus stations;

    (4) service stations;

    (5) public libraries;

    (6) highway rest stops;

    (7) public parks;

    (8) public baths or "health clubs," where men congregate and watch other men sodomize each other;

    (9) "gay bars" and night clubs; and

    (10) certain street corners where homosexuals "cruise" for anonymous partners

    Reference: K. Jay and A. Young. The Gay Report. Summit Books, 1979, page 500. See also Rechy, The Sexual Outlaw. Grove Press, 1977, and the

    Gayellow Pages, which are compiled by homosexuals for each large city and show exactly where homosexuals congregate, and for what purposes.

    It is interesting to note that bedrooms did not even make the top ten!
  • Noje 2012/12/19 15:19:36
    No
    Noje
    +1
    you can have sex changes. On the other side of the coin, you should have the option for therapy. If the therapy was to make people gay, would pro gay advocates accept THAT?
  • greyjack Noje 2012/12/21 14:52:54
  • Mdougla... Noje 2012/12/22 07:10:00
    Mdouglas231
    +2
    Excuse me, but are you aware that this law applies ONLY to minor children? Minor children who don't have the legal or practical right to resist being placed in this so-called "therapy"? And that is based on the FACT that this therapy is not recognized by the medical and psychological community? That they, in fact, almost universally CONDEMN it? Are you aware of this? It does nothing to interfere with the right of adults to try this quackery. Get your facts straight next time before you post.
  • George ... Mdougla... 2013/01/20 19:20:07
    George Martinez
    +3
    Your point is well taken. But I was just making a point about the therapy in general. I suspect some people would be outraged regardless of whether it was directed at minors or not.
  • jertyuiop Noje 2013/01/03 20:53:31 (edited)
    jertyuiop
    +1
    You can't convert gay to straight or straight to gay. So, no I don't believe pro-gay advocates would accept that.
  • George ... jertyuiop 2013/01/20 19:16:55 (edited)
    George Martinez
    +3
    Tell that to a woman I know of who started becoming attracted to women, after she had been taking the hormonal supplement DHEA. Sexuality its directly linked with hormone balance. Hormones are greatly responsible for sexual identity. Now, im not suggesting we start shooting people up with hormones, of course. Im simply pointing out that sexual preferences can change via chemical changes. THere are plenty of peer studies linking hormonal disruptions to changes in sexual preferences, such as how males with high BPA content in the body (more specifically, estrogenic disruptions were shown to exihibit more feminine charicteristics. There are other, more compelling studies, but this isnt a lecture. Make of that what you will. Im not hating against gays. They arent harming anyone. Im friends with gay people actually. But to be intellectually honest with myself, I have to admit the probability that sexual preferences CAN change via chemistry.
  • jertyuiop George ... 2013/01/26 16:57:25
    jertyuiop
    I completely agree with you, but the thing is that we have a certain amount of each hormone naturally and if anyone did want to convert people's sexuality then that would be unnatural, rather than the same-sex attraction being unnatural.
  • George ... jertyuiop 2013/04/21 22:22:43
    George Martinez
    Ok. But what if a hormonal profile is not natural to begin with? For example, environmental estrogenic compounds (which are unnatural), change what is natural. So, if the baseline is brought about unnaturally, if someone leans towards the same sex, the hypothetical "treatment" would only serve to return to a "natural" baseline. However, some situations happen more in the embryonic stages, which would call for a preventative (reduce the presence of estrogenic compounds in the environment) approach rather than invasive .
  • jertyuiop George ... 2013/04/23 19:47:01
    jertyuiop
    That's possible, but homosexuals have been around forever, so what could have unnaturally caused people to be gay then? I believe that the evidence is rather conclusive - homosexuality is natural.
  • Danielle Noje 2013/04/10 03:25:39
    Danielle
    No we wouldn't, if you're gay be gay, if you're straight be straight.
  • macy 2012/12/16 06:52:53
    Yes
    macy
    +3
    It just leads to suicides, because it makes people feel guilty and it's fake.
  • zaddaa 2012/12/15 00:31:30
    Yes
    zaddaa
    +2
    A person has the right to chose who they prefer to be with.
  • Michael Murphy 2012/12/13 15:12:59
  • Lena 2012/12/12 21:13:23
    No
    Lena
    +3
    Whoops! I meant to click yes!
  • EricVanSingleton 2012/12/12 04:56:29
    No
    EricVanSingleton
    +3
    It's really silly to assume to be able to change the nature of an individual. Eventually that minor will grow up and choose not to be influenced by the needs of others to change. We are sexual by nature, and beyond that it's all about choice. It's like forcing a righty to be a lefty when we should be satified with our children being happy and loved.
  • jertyuiop EricVan... 2013/01/03 20:55:14
    jertyuiop
    +1
    I completely agree with you, but I think you might have clicked the wrong answer; the question is whether it is right to ban this sort of thing.
  • Stacey 2012/12/11 23:05:17
    No
    Stacey
    +3
    The question we should be asking is why was it leagal in the first place !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • Mdougla... Stacey 2012/12/22 07:14:13 (edited)
    Mdouglas231
    +2
    Yes, it is well within the right and duty of each State to determine what constitutes child abuse. And California has determined, based on the almost universal advice of the medical and psychological community, that this "therapy" is abusive. Not "worthless" but actually abusive. And I agree -- any "procedure" that leads to the misery, substance abuse, and suicide that THIS garbage does IS abuse, pure and simple.

    Beyond that, I predict two things. First, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals will overturn this misguided district judge. Second, that more and more states will recognize this quackery as abuse and put similar laws on THEIR books.
  • Mtg303 Mdougla... 2012/12/26 19:27:57
    Mtg303
    +2
    We have laws on the books to protect minors from controversial therapies and programs as there has been abuse in the past. I agree, overturn the ruling and expand the laws on child abuse.

    Stop Child Abuse in Residential Programs for Teens Act of 2008 (H.R. 6358) Tranquility Bay WWASP school
  • Mike56 Mtg303 2013/04/28 01:59:11
    Mike56
    do you consider brainwashing kids by homosexuality promoters child abuse?
  • Jack 2012/12/11 01:38:23
    No
    Jack
    +2
    It would actually depend on whether it was helping or harming people? Those who feel they need therapy...probably do..just not sure if that is it?
  • Mdougla... Jack 2012/12/22 07:22:47
    Mdouglas231
    +2
    I would agree with you -- as it pertains to adults. But for children, who obviously don't have the legal right or the practical control to resist being put in this so-called "therapy" I must agree with the law. In writing and passing this law, the Legislature was guided by an almost universal condemnation of this "therapy" by the medical and psychological professions as not just valueless, but actually abusive and dangerous. And by the fact that statistically, those children forced to undergo this "therapy" have a unusually high incidence of substance abuse and suicide. Because of these factors, California felt it had both the right, and the duty, to intercede on behalf of these children. Since the law doesn't address adults utilizing this "therapy" then obviously they can choose to undergo it if they want.
  • ailsa.king2 2012/12/10 21:31:47
    Yes
    ailsa.king2
    +10
    As the mother of a gay man now in his late 30's, I know that people are born gay, they don't just wake up one morning and 'choose' to be gay and anyone who believes otherwise is just 'pig ignorant'! My best friend of over 53 years also has a gay son who I love to bits, and I grew up with a gay cousin. I remember well the day my son 'came out' to me at the age of 17 and told me how he had been struggling with his sexual orientation for over 6 months, trying to decide who in the family would be the most accepting of him being gay and that he had even been contemplating suicide! Thankfully he chose to come out to me first. This young man has 2 older brothers and a younger sister who, at the time, were very obviously anti gay and he was afraid they would give him 'the bash' if they found out he was gay! At the end of the day, his siblings all took the news in their stride, much better than even I would have expected and my son is now in a loving long-term relationship with his partner of around 8 years. I also have a second cousin who grew up, married, had a child, divorced and, has since come out and she couldn't be happier... People need to learn to accept people for who they are, not what their sexual orientation is. You don't shake someone by the hand when you first meet them and ask them what their sexual preference is, do you? Gay people are beautiful people too so get over it and just accept them for who they are!
  • moira.f... ailsa.k... 2013/01/11 12:08:40
    moira.faulds.14
    absolutely, as it has always been so!
  • Mike56 ailsa.k... 2013/04/28 02:19:36
    Mike56
    "they don't just wake up one morning and 'choose' to be gay" ------ "I remember well the day my son 'came out' to me at the age of 17 and told me how he had been struggling with his sexual orientation for over 6 months" ------ aren't these two sentences of yours mutually exclusive? The second one is clear evidence of the boy "changing" his sexual preferences 6 months before he came to you. You seem to be OK with some monsters breaking his will and probably forcing his choice, but to undo that monstrosity would be "evil". Great.
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