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Best baseball player of all times was/is?

Sister Jean 2012/08/19 19:11:05
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  • CAPISCE 2012/08/26 12:11:16
    it's
    CAPISCE
    +1
    Babe Ruth---look at the numbers, he was hitting more Home Runs and driving in more runs than "Whole Divisions" at the time.
    It would be like someone hitting 200 Home Runs currently and driving in 300 runs babe ruth
  • Nu Joisey 2012/08/23 18:31:08
    it's
    Nu Joisey
    +1
    Nolan Ryan
  • kaybera 2012/08/22 23:48:13
    it's
    kaybera
    +1
    Pete Rose
  • Somkey the Hores 2012/08/22 22:20:41
    it's
    Somkey the Hores
    +1
    Don Drysdale,
    don drysdale
  • Bunk11 2012/08/22 20:19:19
    it's
    Bunk11
    +2
    Ted Williams. Best pitcher, Walter Johnson.
  • Sister ... Bunk11 2012/08/22 21:09:05
  • ThickAzABrick 2012/08/22 18:20:33
    it's
    ThickAzABrick
    +1
    I know I'm gonna get shelled for this.

    I want to say Willie Mays, I really do. But I'm going to say Rickey Henderson. Power, average, walks, stolen bases, fielding, and his complete ability to change the game just by being on base. His presence made the people around him better. You couldn't throw Lansford, Cansenco or McGuire any curves- Rickey would steal. So they got fastballs to crush. Even when the pitchers got teammates out, they were concentrating on this pesky man on the base paths.

    Wow, I've never said anybody else except Mays.
  • xcide13 ThickAz... 2012/08/23 04:31:07
    xcide13
    The same guys are allowed to steal today...maybe not as good as Henderson...but still...
  • USAF Vet 2012/08/22 08:01:45
    I think
    USAF Vet
    +1
    The Mick!

    Mickey mantel
  • CAPISCE USAF Vet 2012/08/26 12:12:29
    CAPISCE
    He's 2 on my list tied with Dimaggio and Willians
  • Concerned Citizen 2012/08/22 02:47:31
  • xcide13 Concern... 2012/08/23 04:31:33
    xcide13
    +1
    Yup...
  • EDWARD G 2012/08/22 01:51:46
    I think
    EDWARD G
    +1
    Pete Rose
  • Mike J. Hirak 2012/08/21 16:08:30
    it's
    Mike J. Hirak
    +1
    Barry Bonds
  • xcide13 Mike J.... 2012/08/23 04:31:52
    xcide13
    blech...
  • jacktown kid 2012/08/21 15:05:25
    it's
    jacktown kid
    +5
    Babe Ruth Babe Ruth
  • Proggy 2012/08/21 06:55:01
    it's
    Proggy
    +3


    OMG! Just think what his rookie card is worth now.
  • BoardinOK 2012/08/20 18:50:53
    I think
    BoardinOK
    +2
    I don't know for sure, but I'll tell you who my favorite player is...

    Best hitter that I've seen play, as far as being a pure hitter...
    tony gwynn
    Tony Gwynn, great hitter and good guy.

    Also, I know that a lot of people are using Babe Ruth who did some phenomenal things on the baseball field. But, sort of like McGwire and Bonds, there should be an asterisk, because until the game was integrated, one has to ask if they were really the best? or just the best of the people that were allowed to play?
  • xcide13 BoardinOK 2012/08/23 04:32:35
    xcide13
    +1
    best pure hitter there ever was...
  • BoardinOK xcide13 2012/08/23 14:43:45
    BoardinOK
    +1
    I spent a summer in San Diego and used to love watching him play. They had some great players that summer with Benito Santiago, Roberto Alomar, and Gwynn. Good times.
  • Frank 2012/08/20 18:38:04
    I think
    Frank
    +1
    What a tough question. My son and I have over a hundred thousand baseball cards in our collection. So to be fair you would need to break it down as to best home run hitter, best hitter, best pitcher, best all around. So not to evade the question you have to go with Hammering Hank Aaron for best home run hitter, Pete Rose as best hitter, Bob Gibson for best pitcher, and best all around is Willie Mays.......
  • Superman 2012/08/20 15:00:16
    it's
    Superman
    +5
    This one isn't even up for debate.

    babe ruth
  • ThickAz... Superman 2012/08/22 18:12:26
    ThickAzABrick
    Respectfully, I could debate it.

    Throughout his era, the AL consisted of teams in NY, Philly, Detroit, D.C., Boston, Chicago, Cleveland and St. Louis. Along with 8 fewer games per year, there was significantly less travel since there were no trips to Seattle, Arlington, Oakland, Tampa Bay, Minneapolis or Anaheim.

    For me, the biggest difference between modern ball and it's heyday, is integration. Today, we have the best players from around the world- Black, Japanese, Korean, Dominican, Columbian, Venezuelan, Cuban... 16 countries in all are represented in the Majors this year. Babe, Ty, Gehrig, et al only had to face the best white players. Once Mr. Rickey brought down the color barrier, the competition got a whole lot more intense.

    Hornsby, Lajoie, Cobb, Williams, DiMaggio, Ruth, Foxx and the rest of the great ones are still great. But, I would bet their numbers would be less had society been integrated. Peace.
  • Superman ThickAz... 2012/08/22 18:52:00
    Superman
    You make arguments that I do agree with generally and even make myself on other issues regarding the difference between eras. But I'd retort by basically arguing that your discussion is focused more on the generalities of the different eras rather than a specific argument against Ruth or for another player.

    My argument for Ruth is this:

    - Performance. You're correct in that Ruth didn't have to play against the best minority competition out there (though if I'm correct he didn't shy away in independent barn storming events). So all you can do is take a look at what he did as an individual compared to the competition he played against. His offensive numbers were simply unheard of at the time. When you take a look at the mythological season where he hit more home runs then other full teams did, thats a statement. He didn't just take the home run record, he shattered it. Of course others would have hit near him and facing better pitchers would have reigned him in some. But his offensive numbers compared to the time, who he did play against and who came before, are a statement.

    - Versatility. Basically I'm refering to the fact that he was the best offensive player of his generation but he also could pitch until teams stopped it. We've seen players make switches before - of no...



    You make arguments that I do agree with generally and even make myself on other issues regarding the difference between eras. But I'd retort by basically arguing that your discussion is focused more on the generalities of the different eras rather than a specific argument against Ruth or for another player.

    My argument for Ruth is this:

    - Performance. You're correct in that Ruth didn't have to play against the best minority competition out there (though if I'm correct he didn't shy away in independent barn storming events). So all you can do is take a look at what he did as an individual compared to the competition he played against. His offensive numbers were simply unheard of at the time. When you take a look at the mythological season where he hit more home runs then other full teams did, thats a statement. He didn't just take the home run record, he shattered it. Of course others would have hit near him and facing better pitchers would have reigned him in some. But his offensive numbers compared to the time, who he did play against and who came before, are a statement.

    - Versatility. Basically I'm refering to the fact that he was the best offensive player of his generation but he also could pitch until teams stopped it. We've seen players make switches before - of note I can rattle off three from my own team: Stan Musial started as a pitcher, Rick Ankiel obviously started as a pitcher, Jason Motte started as a catcher. That stuff happens. But usually you end up sucking at one and excelling at the other. Ruths situation is likely the most pronounced in the history of the sport.

    - Historical moment. This is mostly about the role the player played in the mythology of the sport and not just the raw numbers. People like Jackie Robinson, Roberto Clemente and Hank Aaron all have these moments. And they don't have to be tied to a single event so much as just what that person means to the sport or his era. Some are villains like Barry Bonds and Pete Rose too. Well a villianous moment includes the Black Sox scandal which happened early enough in the sport to potentially knock it out. The evolution of Ruth and what he could do saved the game. Theres a chance that without Ruth baseball might not have survived or not had grown to the popularity it achieved.

    I can't think of an individual player I can stack up against him.
    (more)
  • ThickAz... Superman 2012/08/22 19:25:53
    ThickAzABrick
    Well reasoned and well written. Plus rather than using Performance Enhancing drugs, Ruth was a party man, making his accomplishments even more unique. His power and batting average numbers are simply spectacular. He's been out of the sport some 75-80 years and we're still talking about him, that says a lot.

    (I'm still taking Rickey though, with Willie, Ted and Barry right behind.)
  • Superman ThickAz... 2012/08/22 19:45:33
    Superman
    If I were ranking I'd probably have Ruth, Mays, Aaron, Barry and Stan.

    Guys like Henderson and Pete Rose I'm not sure how I want to fit them in. And while I think the Splinter is Top Ten All Time I think he's just a pinch overrated. Just a pinch.

    It would be interesting to discuss your thoughts on the PE Era as I call it, considering you put Barry in there.
  • ThickAz... Superman 2012/08/22 20:13:25
    ThickAzABrick
    I'm just heading out the door for Hospice training, but basically I'm a hypocrite when it comes to this era. I think we either exclude EVERYONE from this era or include them all. If we include them all, then I think we should look at each persons career individually. Barry, Clemens and ARod were all HOF bound before the first appearance of roids. Guys like Brady Anderson and Sammy Sosa came out of nowhere, and then fell off dramatically. Mark McGuire? He was a scrawny rookie who smacked 49 homers, then declined, then spiked, then declined. Not sure if he was HOF material in the first place.

    What do you think?
  • Superman ThickAz... 2012/08/22 21:20:33
    Superman
    I'm sort of of the same mindset. I think its everyone or no one. More and more I read the more I get the sense that the effect of roids wasn't as much on the actual home runs hit as it was getting players recovered and keeping them on the field and in their top form. Pitchers used and Clemens wasn't throwing hundred and ten mile and hour fast balls. But he was more consistent between games and he maintained what he could do longer. A guy like McGwire (who admitedly special to me as a Cards fan) I actually do think used more to stay on the field than to hit home runs. The shots he hit were just un believeable so taking away whatever effect the juice had I can't see where a second deck shot isn't still going to go out.

    Further, there are so many true unknowns. Obviously we don't know for sure who did and that seems to become fodder for personal opinion. Mark has come out full and honest. Other guys have gone through various trials or positive tests. But we clearly don't have everyone accounted for. A guy like Mark had it over his head more and more for his size. Barry, for the insane jump in dingers and partially because he was an ass. But Griffey and Ripken are never suspected, because they are well liked? If PEDs help recovery then wouldn't the use be plausible at least in a...







    I'm sort of of the same mindset. I think its everyone or no one. More and more I read the more I get the sense that the effect of roids wasn't as much on the actual home runs hit as it was getting players recovered and keeping them on the field and in their top form. Pitchers used and Clemens wasn't throwing hundred and ten mile and hour fast balls. But he was more consistent between games and he maintained what he could do longer. A guy like McGwire (who admitedly special to me as a Cards fan) I actually do think used more to stay on the field than to hit home runs. The shots he hit were just un believeable so taking away whatever effect the juice had I can't see where a second deck shot isn't still going to go out.

    Further, there are so many true unknowns. Obviously we don't know for sure who did and that seems to become fodder for personal opinion. Mark has come out full and honest. Other guys have gone through various trials or positive tests. But we clearly don't have everyone accounted for. A guy like Mark had it over his head more and more for his size. Barry, for the insane jump in dingers and partially because he was an ass. But Griffey and Ripken are never suspected, because they are well liked? If PEDs help recovery then wouldn't the use be plausible at least in an ironman record?

    Beyond that we don't really know the science as far as the numbers go. I've tried to read up on the effects and the theories of how PEDs could add to physical performance and stats and only came up with a little bit. When you had in expansion and parks growing smaller and better equipment and the change into specialized hitting (managers caring less about strikeouts as players go for the long ball) - all of that stuff happening in the same era? It muddys the effect to me. Thats why I call it the PE Era because PEDs weren't really the only thing enhancing performance.

    Anyway, bottom line is that I think we just admit its an era that happened and take the numbers at face value rather than reading into them and trying to judge every case by case in clumsy fashion. So to me the 500 club still stands. Mark, Sosa, Bonds, Palmeiro (also a 3000 hitter) should all go in.

    Take the numbers as they are and the accomplishments and stop worrying so much about it. Focus more on trying to get them out and keep them out of the game going forward - for health reasons more than stat reasons.

    One of my points on this actually circles back around to pre integration. Morally thats a bigger issue in the history of baseball with a much greater potential effect on stats and careers than the PED era ever was. I think the concern over the PED era is a bit much and a bit hollow.
    (more)
  • xcide13 Superman 2012/08/23 04:34:42
    xcide13
    You have taken my speech away from me...thank you...
  • Embalmer 2012/08/20 07:11:56
  • Caedus01 Sith Lord of the P... 2012/08/20 01:58:22
    I think
    Caedus01 Sith Lord of the PHAET
  • wildcat 2012/08/20 01:30:53
    I think
    wildcat
  • Superman wildcat 2012/08/20 15:01:11
    Superman
    +3
    Despite the fact that I voted differently, I have to give as much love as possible to anyone voting Stan The Man.
  • wildcat Superman 2012/08/20 18:39:01
    wildcat
    +2
    Thank you
  • Stoner 2012/08/20 01:08:28
    it's
    Stoner
    +5
    Nolan Ryan
  • Sister Jean 2012/08/19 21:59:45
    it's
    Sister Jean
    +5
    Ted Williams
  • wildcat Sister ... 2012/08/20 18:39:23
    wildcat
    +1
    Superb choice.
  • xcide13 Sister ... 2012/08/23 04:38:02
    xcide13
    He intentionally missed two seaons to join the MARINES! HELL YEAH! What a badass!
  • Joe--PWCM 2012/08/19 21:52:57
    I think
    Joe--PWCM
    +4
    You really cant put a best all time player in baseball.
    You have best hitters and power hitters, defensive players, catchers, pitchers etc.

    And as much as the game has changed from the beginning to now makes it even harder.

    But I would say in my lifetime
    Pitchers, Greg Maddux/Nolan Ryan.

    Base stealing- Ricky henderson
    Defensive players--- To many to list.
    Hitters--- Tony Gywnn hands down
    Power Hitter---- Babe Ruth, everyone else DQ for juice.
    Catchers--- Another tough one to many in my lifetime.

    But I think you get the point
  • The Aging Yankee Liberal Do... 2012/08/19 21:07:07
    it's
    The Aging Yankee Liberal Douche
    +1
    toss up between babe ruth, willie mays, and alex rodriguez

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